DR JANE LOMAX-SMITH AM: One of the things that we find so inspirational about South Australia is that having our own Voice to Parliament, we feel that many of the questions in that fog of fiction may be answered by us. Is that one of the areas that will draw inspiration and support for your plans in the next year?
ANTHONY ALBANESE, PRIME MINISTER: I think that is right, and when we talk about the structure as well, and the principle is in the Constitution – that's the question that people will have to decide. The reason why you want Parliament to legislate the detail, is that over a period of time, that detail may well change according to circumstances. It is a great advantage that South Australia has gotten ahead of the rest of the country, not for the first time, on social policy. And as legislated, the Voice to Parliament, it can be, indeed, a model, and the way forward as well with the structure of the Voice.
I read the other day, I think it was, 'Linda Burney concedes argument re local and regional Voices.' It was always envisaged this be bottom up, this whole process has been bottom up. And so I think the fact that South Australia has this in place, when you put together any new structure like this, you have to, in part until you do it, you won't know what's perfect, and you'll keep working at it. But the beauty of the structure being put forward, is that you'll agree with the principle of the Voice to Parliament and government, will be enshrined in the Constitution, which means it can't just be abolished, according to the government of the day. And that will change the dynamic. That will give First Nations people the confidence to participate in processes, knowing that it's not just going to be ripped away due to political expediency at any time.
LOMAX-SMITH: The way ATSIC was?
PRIME MINISTER: Absolutely, and the way that so many changes have been. There has been ATSIC, of course, it isn't the only consultative body that has been established over a period of time, but they haven't lasted. But when you look at some of the examples that I've raised, the Bourke and Moree example about Justice Reinvestment – that was a state New South Wales Coalition Government, to their great credit. This should not be a partisan issue in my view. This should be something that everyone of goodwill is supporting. It's unfortunate that that isn't the case. But we can't allow people to have veto effectively and wait. 'If not now, when?' is a pretty useful comment I think.
LOMAX-SMITH: It's a good phrase, thank you. We've also got a question, and I can't name all the people who wrote these questions in, they've been amalgamated. But several people asked how you would ensure equal input from all Aboriginal communities across the nation?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, one of the things about, and in the speech I gave on the legislation last week, I spoke about the eight principles that have been agreed to would be the basis of the legislation from the Referendum Working Group. And so in different states and territories, the makeup of the Voice might differ. But it is, the principles are there. That is – it will be decided by local people, it will be representative, there needs to be as well representation from remote communities, representation from young people, a gender balance in the representation going forward as well. And they're the sort of details that will be worked through.
And one of the benefits of state bodies, and in Victoria, pretty soon as well, they have an Indigenous advisory group that are elected, is that those organisations can be consulted as well. Because one of the principles going forward is that the Voice would work with existing organisations. So it's not trying to either replace or start anew. It recognises the social capital, to use a terrible term, that's been built up over a long period of time, with existing land councils and different organisations as well.
LOMAX-SMITH: Thank you. We had several questions about Uluru Statement, and whether the Voice to Parliament would lead to a treaty and truth-telling as well.
PRIME MINISTER: Well, they are very much a part of the next phase, if you like. And one of the things that a Voice to Parliament would be able to do is to talk about Makarrata – the need for agreement making and coming together after a conflict. And part of that is truth-telling about our history. Treaties, of course, are in some states been negotiated at the moment, and it differs where that is occurring. But the Voice would provide an opportunity for that national Voice on top of where there are local voices and state and territory voices going forward.
LOMAX-SMITH: Thank you. Prime Minister, how might you ensure that the opinions of the Voice were listened to by cabinet ministers and government?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, I think what would occur, I mean there's no right of veto, and that's important – that the primacy of the Parliament be maintained. Now that's been the subject of some legitimate criticism, from people who say it doesn't go far enough. But for me, that's an essential component of success going forward, that we make that very clear. But all of the evidence is, as well, that when you have Indigenous Australians, give them the opportunity to actually be listened to, and to have to say, it'll be pretty good advice. You know, let's do things with each other, rather than for.
So with the best of intentions, and I think that a range of people, including some people now advocating a No vote, have had the best intentions of looking after Indigenous people as they saw it. But we know what the result has been – we know that the gap is not being closed. We know that when you actually do get that empowerment, and it's no different from any other group of people as well. You know, it's probably a good idea when you're writing women's policy to listen to women. It's a good idea, when, if you were consulting members of the Italian community in Adelaide, it's probably a good idea to walk down the road here and do the Italian radio and listen to what people are saying as well. It makes sense to do it that way, to listen and to engage. And if you do that, you'll get better outcomes. And I'm very confident that what it would result in is governments listening. Because they would be getting much better advice. And, you know, people aren't, I think that overwhelmingly, Australians do want to do the right thing. And my colleagues in the Parliament across the spectrum do want advancement for Indigenous Australians. And having that opportunity to listen to them, they will be heard.
LOMAX-SMITH: One of the questions, Prime Minister, from some school students, was about how leadership is important when one listens. And one of the issues that we all face is trying to persuade people who are unsympathetic or have been swayed by the fog that you spoke of. And one of the students said, how do you listen when you want to lead?
PRIME MINISTER: I think leadership is about listening. One of the things that we established in the lead-up to the referendum was the Referendum Working Group, a group of, together, the larger group was more than 50 Indigenous Australians, to have their say about what the wording would be. And I see some, there is some commentary that speaks about 'the Prime Minister's wording', in order to try to politicise it and try to make it a party political issue. The truth is that the words like 'Voice to Parliament and Government' have been around for over a decade, were advocated, there are speeches from Noel Pearson and Julian Leeser, who was the Shadow Minister for Indigenous Affairs and the Shadow Attorney-General before recently, were a part of that process. And it is not a radical proposition.
But we wanted to make sure, I think the first step as a precondition for success, was having wording put forward that was supported by the Referendum Working Group. By what was a very broad group of people from across every state and territory, different backgrounds, were all involved in that process. Just as the wording of the Uluru Statement was the product itself of over 1000 meetings and discussions that took place. And so there are some who say, 'why don't you just have recognition separate from the Voice?' To which I say that, after all that consultation process, recognition was what Indigenous Australians wanted, through that First Nations consultation, that constitutional convention. But the Voice was how they wanted it. They wanted something that wasn't just symbolic, they wanted something more. And to say no to that, to say 'oh no, we're just going to go, we're going to as politicians write something completely different to that,' would in my view be very disingenuous, and would undermine the whole process from the very beginning. The very nature of that recognition, it wouldn't be real.
And so that's part of the frustrating thing for me. I counted up the number of times that my name was mentioned in a speech in Parliament last week, as if, you know, I was sitting on the porch at Marrickville, saying, 'I've got this idea, how about we do an Uluru Statement?' I mean, I wasn't there. This is something that is genuinely an extraordinary example of people who don't have power, coming together, to speak to power, to say, 'this is what we want, and this is how we want it.' And being so gracious, I think, and generous, in that it is not too much to ask, for non-Indigenous Australians to think about how they would feel, and to make this practical change.
As I said in the speech, it won't make, for the overwhelming majority of Australians, it won't make any difference to their practical day-to-day lives, but it might just lift up some of the most disadvantaged people in Australia. But what it will do, as well, is lift up the nation in the way that we see ourselves and our confidence and our maturity. And that's really important.
LOMAX-SMITH: Well, thank you Prime Minister. I think you've given us an enormous insight into your passion and what has driven you for this reform. We're all absolutely behind you. And I think that we will be advocates fighting for the Yes vote. And I want to thank you for your time today.
PRIME MINISTER: Thanks very much.