NEIL MITCHELL, HOST: The newly, well recently newly elected Prime Minister of Australia Anthony Albanese. Good morning.
ANTHONY ALBANESE, PRIME MINISTER: Good morning. Good to be with you.
MITCHELL: And congratulations. We haven't spoken since. Thank you. Congratulations.
PRIME MINISTER: Thank you. Thank you very much.
MITCHELL: We're looking inflation could be seven per cent. Is it fair to say wages won't be able to keep pace with inflation for the next year?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, certainly it's going to be tough. And we have real economic headwinds, we're looking at higher rates of inflation that could well hit seven per cent. We are looking at some interest rate increases beyond that which we've already have had, I think we can expect further increases. And there's real pressure, of course, in our economy on cost of living, and that's something that the new government is having to deal with and tackle.
MITCHELL: So workers just have to accept a cut in real wages?
PRIME MINISTER: No, look, I'm very committed to dealing with living standards. And there's a range of ways you can do it. Of course, it's not just about wages, it's also about an increase in secure work that is needed, about decreasing the cost of child care for families. But I understand the pressure that's on. That's why we prioritise putting in a submission to the Fair Work Commission for Australia's lowest paid workers, those on the minimum wage and dependent upon those rates. And the Fair Work Commission recognised the pressure that people were under by granting the 5.2 per cent increase.
MITCHELL: One of the banks said we could have full rate rises before the year's end. Do you think it's that pessimistic?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, I, of course, the Reserve Bank sets these rates independently of government. But I think that is the more pessimistic end of the forecast. That would place real pressure on people. Of course, the Reserve Bank will make its decisions based upon their assessment of where the economy is at. But they need to be careful that they don't overreach as well. Of course, the Reserve Bank declared a while ago, and they've conceded the error that interest rates would, would stay at the extraordinarily low levels where they were for a period of years up to 2024, and that hasn't been the case.
MITCHELL: Well, that's hurt people they were wrong. Are you saying make sure they don't go too hard this time?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, they need to make sure that they get the assessment, right. There are some circumstances that could not have been foreseen. One thing that has an impact had a real impact globally, of course, is the Russian invasion of Ukraine that had such an impact on, on energy prices that then has been through to supply chains and had had a real impact right around the world.
MITCHELL: Who will be who's hurting most in this? Who's this I notice, the treasurer says, there's confronting news on the economy, you've probably just outlined, I hope there's nothing else.
PRIME MINISTER: Look, I think people who are hurting the most are those in insecure work, and we know that there's been a real increase in that, over recent years, people who don't have leave who are struggling to get by who are working multiple jobs. There are more and more people who might be working three or four jobs just to get by. And without that security, it's hard to get a mortgage. It's hard to plan to have a family. That's why I'm convening the jobs and skill summit to bring together unions and employers bring together the community sector as well, to discuss how we lift living standards, lift productivity, really have a plan beyond the day to day to actually have those discussions to try to talk through what unites us. We've had a lot of division in recent years. I want people and organisations to work together for our common interest as much as possible.
MITCHELL: Just talking to a pollster was telling me far and away the most important issue to voters at the moment is cost of living. And they say generally say the politicians just don't get it. You just don't understand how bad it is. Now, you're well paid, I'm well paid we have been for a long time. Do you think you are genuinely in touch with how hard it is for people at the moment?
PRIME MINISTER: Oh, I recognise that I'm in a privileged position as are you Neil, and I think it's really important to always remember where you come from. And that's one of the reasons why I tried to in spite of the fact that I just hopped on a plane to Melbourne and I'll be I'll be here today and I live a very privileged life compared with people I grew up with, I make sure that I keep in touch with, with what is happening on the ground to the extent possible, I maintain a group of friendships of people I grew up with, and their families. And I think that's really important that we do what we can. But we do have to recognise if you're a politician that you're on many times more the salary than many of the people who we were elected to represent. And never forget that people out there are really, really doing it tough at the moment, I certainly acknowledge that.
MITCHELL: What do they tell you? What are your friends tell you? What is the worst? What is the toughest part of the moment? What is the hardest issue in cost of living?
PRIME MINISTER: Just getting by there, the big thing that people talk to me about is the food bills, food and groceries, because that's the thing that that they can't avoid, and the price of everyday fruit and veggies and, and meat. And those essentials of life that have just gone up substantially, that has a lot of talk, of course about lettuce a while ago, but it's not just that it is across the board. And just that their grocery bills, which may well have been, you know, $150, all of a sudden, they buy the same products. And it comes out at 200 or more. That's a real shock to the system because people's incomes aren't rising at the same level and that's placing real pressure on families.
MITCHELL: So how long before real wages? We say okay, now you can catch up. Now you're now you're back in town, how long is that off do you reckon?
PRIME MINISTER: Look, we've got to get inflation under control the advice that we've received in briefings from Treasury and Finance that we received regularly, that we hoped that inflation will peak in coming months and then start to come down. By next year. The Treasurer Jim Chalmers will give an economic statement to the Parliament next week, outlining exactly what the circumstances are. We want to be upfront with people about what we're facing in the coming months. But we also want to develop plans to turn it around.
MITCHELL: That's part of what I'm asking let's be up front with people? How long is this pain going to last? How long will you have to cop the reduction, the reduction in real wages? How long is that going for?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, this year is going to be tough. This year will be tough in in, in in coming months. But you know, I want to see real wages and living standards increase over our first term of government. That's something I'm very committed to. I'll be talking later today with the ACTU here in Melbourne. I know they're concerned about their members. It's why we put forward that that practical proposition to the Fair Work Commission. That's why we were convened the jobs and skill Summit, which will take place in September in Canberra.
MITCHELL: Just onto the pandemic. There's been a lot of mixed messaging around this. And I can understand that we that we don't want to go back to lock downs and things. But as Prime Minister as leader of the country, do you urge people to work from home if they can at the moment?
PRIME MINISTER: I urge people to certainly stay home if they're sick. You know that that is important. It's one of the four things that they need to do. Get a booster if you're eligible. If you are suffering from if you do get COVID get access to antivirals if that's possible, wear a mask if you can't socially distance if you're indoors and trying to get that uniform messages is one of the things that we did at National Cabinet over the weekend. And stay home if you are sick that's why we've
MITCHELL: But Professor Kelly yesterday was saying work from home if you can, and do you go that far. We need a clear message here. Is it work from home if you can or is it keep going to the office?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, it depends what your work is, of course for many workplaces, they've adjusted to be able to work from home and that's becoming more and more something that I think will be a permanent feature for some businesses. I know, some of the banking sector, for example, have days in which people are working from home every week, and that is taking pressure off of the costs which are there. But for many people, of course, it's simply not possible to work from home due to the nature of their work.
MITCHELL: But that's the point are we saying to people, if you can work from home do.
PRIME MINISTER: Look it depends upon the workplace, of course, I don't think there's a prescriptive position that can be put forward. But for many people, it's convenient. They, they work in occupations whereby they can deliver for their business, just as easily working from home and I know that now, you know, you today, I think, are still broadcasting from home. But for me, I've got to get out and about, for example, today, I'm on my way to the Walter Eliza Hall Institute, here in Parkville, to talk about medical research and what we're doing at that angle to assist in battling this pandemic.
MITCHELL: Well, speaking of that, you've seen the modelling for the winter, what does it say?
PRIME MINISTER: It says that it's likely to peak in the next in the coming weeks, in August. And then by the end of September, it's very hopeful that that will have passed, people will still have COVID, of course, but the numbers will peak over coming weeks, and then
MITCHELL: And the peak, will the peak be worse than January?
PRIME MINISTER: It's round about, it's pretty close to being the same at the moment of where we were in January. The difference is that this is a very infectious strain before five is what the advice was, but that it has less of a health impact. And then part of that is because more people are vaccinated now. And I do want to say that in the in the last week, more than 500,000 people have gone out and got their fourth shot. That's a great thing. And people deserve congratulations on that. And if you can, if you're eligible to get a booster there are lots of vaccines out there. Please log on, log on and make an appointment.
MITCHELL: I'm sorry to interrupt there's a lot to get through, and we haven't got long. Do you think we'll ever go back to lockdowns?
PRIME MINISTER: I certainly hope not. I don't think
MITCHELL: What about border closures, will we ever go back to border closures?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, I certainly hope not as well. I think people are done with that sort of economic restrictions, which are there. One of the reasons for border closures, of course, was that the states varied. You know WA came through the pandemic very well. For example, it made sense the decisions that they made. But when I met with the State Premiers and Chief Ministers last week, no one's arguing for those economic constraints to be brought back. We do need to continue to have an economy that functions whilst looking after people's health.
MITCHELL: Have you fully recovered from COVID? No long COVID?
PRIME MINISTER: Yeah, no, I've been very fortunate. I had a couple of pretty rough days, I've got to say, and it varies the impact on people and for some period of time for weeks afterwards. During the campaign I had some days were better than better than others.
MITCHELL: A few slips there, were the slips caused by COVID?
PRIME MINISTER: Not putting up any reason for any of that, but it wasn't a bad campaign. Now. I'm the Prime Minister.
MITCHELL: You've been a Labor Party official. You've been around the Labor Party a long time. You've ever seen branch stacking?
PRIME MINISTER: Yeah, of course I have.
MITCHELL: Did you try and stop it?
PRIME MINISTER: Yeah, we did. I've intervened as leader of the Labor Party in both New South Wales and Victoria. We took very strong action to essentially here in Victoria, we took over the Victorian branch appointed Steve Bracks and Jenny Macklin two people beyond reproach when it comes to integrity, to deal with the issues in New South Wales as well I appointed Michael Lavarch, former Attorney General who made reform recommendations there and cleaned up the branch and I'm pleased that the work that Jenny and Steve have done to clean up the branch here in Victoria.
MITCHELL: Well IBAC and the ombudsman just reported in a scathing way they say, they found that they've got a catalogue of unethical and inappropriate behaviour, bullying, hiring unqualified people, rampant nepotism, forging of signatures, and interfering with government grants. This is in Victoria now, Prime Minister that must concern you, will you talk to the Premier about that.
PRIME MINISTER: Well, we intervened.
MITCHELL: Yes but it's still going on I don't know that it's fixed.
PRIME MINISTER: I haven't seen the report obviously but the report, the report, by definition will be looking at past practice can't look at what's happening today. By definition, these reports that's what inquiries do. And we intervene in the strongest possible way, literally 1000s of people were removed from the roll of the Victorian branch of the Labor Party. We intervened to make sure that no one secured any advantage by taking control of the federal pre-selection, and
MITCHELL: Does the Premier wear any of this, the report says that it's effectively been approved or condoned by party leadership for decades, surely the premier Where's some of that, doesn't it?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, Daniel Andrews took the strongest possible action, and it was a very gutsy decision.
MITCHELL: Kicking and screaming.
PRIME MINISTER: Well after the review occurred that that we took was after the 60 Minutes programme was on the Sunday night. I spoke to Daniel Andrews on that Sunday night. We convened the National Executive over the subsequent two days and within 48 hours, had taken control of the branch. I expelled or sought expulsion of a number of figures from the Labor Party within weeks of becoming the Federal Leader.
MITCHELL: So, but in broad terms, you're happy that it's been Victoria has been cleaned up?
PRIME MINISTER: I am, I think that the Victorian branch, took very strong action and Daniel Andrews took strong action and showed leadership. It's a gutsy call for a Premier to do what he did.
MITCHELL: Okay, a couple of other quick things, which will be of more interest to people, abortion, are you looking at requiring public hospitals to make abortion available as part of their funding agreement?
PRIME MINISTER: No.
MITCHELL: It's being urged by one of your people, why won't you?
PRIME MINISTER: It's a state matter, state matter. States control hospitals.
MITCHELL: It's your funding, it's federal funding.
PRIME MINISTER: In this country, We don't control that the health system and States control the health system. They deal with these issues. And we're fortunate that in Australia, we don't have the sort of divisive debate that has occurred in the United States that we've seen playing out. There's a Supreme Court decision on Roe versus Wade, that I think is a very unfortunate decision.
MITCHELL: Speaking of the health system, we need to get that right. I mean, COVID showing the problems. Will you , you talked about your job Summit, would you ever health summit to try and remake the hospital system that's failing?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, the hospital system is under enormous pressure. And we, of course, the first meeting of the National Cabinet I held, we increased funding by almost a billion dollars for the states and territories.
MITCHELL: It's not just money Prime Minister, the system's broken. It's not just money.
PRIME MINISTER: I agree, but what we did, what we did at that, at that decision was to recognise that it wasn't just about funding, that we would look at these issues over a period of time, like in the lead up to the end of this year. So I deal with the immediate pressures that we're on, but look at how we get better results, from the health system. There's a lot of duplication, our federal system, let's face it, now, if we were designing Australia today, there'd be very few people who would say, let's have three tiers of government. And let's have some ambiguity over who's in control of what and so you have, for example, the health system can suffer because of people who should be in aged care or the fact that nurses aren't in aged care. Many people end up in emergency departments. People are there to help them. There's a range of those issues that need to be looked at and dealt with and we are working it through cooperatively with states and territories.
MITCHELL: Good Victoria, do you want Victoria to mine more gas we have restrictions on coal seam gas, both fracking and conventional means.
MITCHELL: Do you want us to mine more gas in Victoria?
PRIME MINISTER: That is a decision for Victoria.
MITCHELL: It's affecting the whole country.
PRIME MINISTER: But states are in charge of their decisions. And one of the things that's happened there, of course, is very clear mandates, my understanding is, from both sides of politics here in Victoria.
MITCHELL: You're going to have lectures for MPs in Canberra on sexual assault, bullying and harassment. Do we really need to lecture, people who've been elected to the Parliament presumably got some standing, do we need to lecture them on how to behave decently? Do some of them just not get it?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, I'm not sure where that gets from, that term lecture. But one of the things we have had, and I've had as well as part of the review that occurred by Stephanie Foster into behaviour in Parliament, was courses. And I did it. I made it compulsory for my Labor MPs to do it, about how to deal with the challenges which might be there for people, for example, how do you deal with issues in your workplace? Some of that is about management as well and where to go to make sure that people are fully informed. Because that was an issue, as there are in many workplaces. I think that sort of education is now pretty much standard practice in major businesses, by the way, as well.
MITCHELL: Thank you so much for your time. Which tier of government are you going to do away with, by the way? Are you going get rid of yourself or Daniel Andrews or Sally Capp? Which tier of government? I agree with you that we already have too many. Who would you do away with?
PRIME MINISTER: I wouldn't get rid of myself, funnily enough, Neil. I just got here.
MITCHELL: But Daniel Andrews, he is your mate. Would you do away with him?
PRIME MINISTER: No. What you would have, it's just a system we have to live with. But you would have a regional system of government, I think, if you're designing Australia again, the Federation's a product of the colonies that came together in 1901 to start up as a nation. We're a product of that history. But you know, we have to deal with it. But a lot of what we're still dealing with is that crossover and contradictions, duplication, inefficiencies. And we can have, one of the ways to boost productivity is micro-economic reform by getting it much clearer about who's responsible for what.
MITCHELL: Good to speak to you. I am hoping to talk again soon. Do you ever look in the mirror in the morning and say, 'Hey, you're Prime Minister'. Do you wake up and have to remind yourself?
PRIME MINISTER: Quite often, Neil, I have got to say. Quite often. It's not something that was on my to-do list when I was growing up. That was to just get a job and to do my best in life. So, it says a lot about this country and what a great country it is that a son of a single mum, who grew up in public housing can go back to public housing later in life but at a place called The Lodge. It is a bit better than where I grew up.
MITCHELL: Thank you so much for your time. Enjoy Melbourne. Thank you, Prime Minister, Anthony Albanese.