GARY ADSHEAD, HOST: All right, welcome back to the Perth Royal Show. Now, there has been a VIP, I certainly know, in town this morning. The Prime Minister, Anthony Albanese. He flew in in relation to a METRONET announcement in terms of the level crossing situation as part of the whole METRONET development on that Armadale Line, which of course has been a source of frustration for a lot of people. But as it's come together, it looks like it's going to be a winner. The Prime Minister is on the line now. Thanks very much for your time, PM.
ANTHONY ALBANESE, PRIME MINISTER: G'day, Gary. Good to be with you. No, it's going to be a cracking project. It, of course, has created 4300 jobs during construction, but it will make such a difference. Improving travel times by rail, improving safety, improving road times as well, as well as opening up a whole lot of space for community use and ending a divide. Often in cities we hear, which side of the tracks are you from? Well, the tracks are above the ground and that means that old saying will go by the wayside. And it's such an exciting project for Perth.
ADSHEAD: No doubt about it. METRONET, for a lot of people, will be a game changer. I agree with that. Now, can I just get to you on that ACCC? Were you surprised? I mean, to see that the ACCC have decided to go down the path of taking those two big supermarket giants to court, your reaction to it?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, this is very strong action and it's good action by the ACCC. The allegations are very serious between the two supermarket giants, Coles and Woolworths, around 500 different product breaches. Now, people are under cost of living pressures, so they're looking for value, they're looking for a bargain. They go into a supermarket and they see a special sign or prices down. They expect that that is cheaper, not more expensive. They don't expect for there to be a breach of trust is really what this is. Where the allegations are prices increased by, say, a dollar and then a few weeks later reduced by $0.50, as if that is a price cut, whereas it's actually more expensive than it was one or two months earlier. Now that is a significant breach of trust. Customers are right to be outraged and that is why the ACCC action has been so strong. And we backed the ACCC in this action.
ADSHEAD: Prime Minister, I asked this of David Littleproud a little while earlier on the program. I said, if these allegations are proven to be true, should heads roll at Woolworths and Coles in terms of the board level?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, these are certainly very serious. Boards are, of course, independent. What should happen is that the ACCC will be asking for significant penalties if these are proven to be correct. The ACCC don't take this sort of action lightly. In addition to that, we are introducing, of course, a mandated Code of Conduct – up from the voluntary code. And we released, essentially, the exposure draft of the terms of that compulsory Code of Conduct. And we also released yesterday the exposure draft of amendments that we'll make to legislation to really look after consumers. That's what we expect. This is an extraordinary breach of faith. Australians expect people to be fair dinkum, and they expect that when they see a sign saying that it's a special and it's a bargain, when – particularly under the circumstances where they're under pressure and they're looking for that value, I find it incomprehensible that what is alleged here essentially is conscious decisions to increase prices, then decrease them by a lesser amount and pretend that that is somehow looking after customers.
ADSHEAD: What about the notion that, you know, again, strong allegations, if they go through the court and are proven and upheld, that this gives you grounds to start talking about the idea of breaking up the duopoly that Coles and Woolworths rule over?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, the problem with that is really, it's a populist notion that doesn't lead anywhere. It's a bit of a cul-de-sac. And what I want is roads that lead to making a difference rather than cul-de-sacs. Now, if Coles in a particular area is told that they have to divest, who's going to buy it? Woolworths or another of the big chains. There's nothing to stop, of course, supermarkets just being established in particular communities. Of course, we do have a market based economy and the idea of divestment sounds okay, whether it's of supermarkets or airlines have also been suggested by the National Party. But I think that it is just that. It's a populist notion that actually isn't practical and wouldn't make a difference.
ADSHEAD: We've got some spot fires over here in the West, and I'm sure you're aware of them because the agricultural sector appear to be ready to punish you in relation to the ban on the live sheep export trade. You've got the mining and resources sector arcing up in terms of billionaires like Chris Ellison telling you and your Government to butt out of the way things operate here in WA. You’ve got the Minerals Council of Australia's Tania Constable saying that you would undermine that sector “at your peril”, were her words. Are you worried about where Western Australia is going to fall come the federal election?
PRIME MINISTER: We support the resources sector and we support the agricultural sector. When it comes to resources, I was, of course, present when Tania Constable gave that speech to her constituency. But the fact is that there is less industrial disputation today than there was under the former Government. And we've had record employment growth, almost a million additional jobs added. We're seeing wages increase and we're seeing business investment increase as well. At the same time, we're putting that downward pressure on inflation by producing two Budget surpluses. When it comes to the agricultural sector, we went to two elections saying that we would end and phase out the live sheep export trade. People were very clear that that was our position. We've given a proper timeframe in order to assist the industry to adjust. And to put it in perspective, this is an industry that's worth $80 million. We have $107 million of support on the table and the sheep meat export industry is worth over $4 billion. I think the deal that we've just done with the UAE for a Free Trade Agreement will be worth more to the sheep meat industry in terms of exports and value than the live sheep export industry is worth at the moment. So, we'll see an even larger industry. And if they were confident that people supported this industry continuing, they wouldn't have the campaign called “Keep the Sheep.” They'd call it “Keep Exporting Live Sheep,” because we know that this is an industry that has been in decline for a long period of time. Now, some would say we should just let it phase out. That would not be honest and would not allow for the industry adjustment to support communities, which is what my Government wants to do.
ADSHEAD: Just the sound of your voice, PM has brought a gathering in front of my caravan where I'm at, at the Royal Show, the agricultural show, of course. And they are shaking their heads in disbelief that you're still picking on the slogan of their campaign. Why would you go down that path? I mean, you know what they mean. Keep the export industry – that's what they mean.
PRIME MINISTER: That's not what they say. That's not what they say. And I think that says this is an industry – and it is an industry that has created issues, has been a long campaign. And Sussan Ley, the Deputy Liberal Leader, moved a Private Member's Bill to end the industry, supported by other front bench members of Peter Dutton's team. So, there's been, across the political spectrum concern there and we know that over a period of time, when you look at the figures, the live export industry has been in decline at the same time as the sheep meat industry, in part because of deals that we've done with the United Kingdom and other countries, has been growing and can continue to grow into the future. We want to work with industry, we want to work with farmers to make sure this transition happens in an orderly way.
ADSHEAD: I know you're on a schedule, but I'll just say this, PM. I mean, you would have to agree that there are sectors across Australia that from time to time have issues. The mining sector, I mean, there are environmental hazards that the mining sector put out every single day, but you're prepared to work with them and allow them to continue on because of the livelihoods that are created through the mining industry. And I can give you examples of where mining has exploited the land, exploited the ocean, done the wrong thing, but you work with them. Why won't you work with the people who are standing out in front of this caravan right now, who say that their livelihoods depend on that industry? Why won't you?
PRIME MINISTER: We want to –
ADSHEAD: Why can't you sit down with them and say we can continue this on these certain conditions? Why not?
PRIME MINISTER: We want to work with them. We want to work with them. That's why we have allocated money for adjustment. We've allocated funds that are already more than the annual value of the industry. But all the figures show and people in the sector will acknowledge, certainly have acknowledged in private meetings that the sheep meat industry is growing at the same time as the export industry has not grown.
ADSHEAD: Last question, PM, if I could change the subject. Clearly, Penny Wong is signalling that people need to leave Lebanon if they're Australian citizens, they should get out. Are you very fearful of a growing and all out conflict in the Middle East?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, I am, and we have called for a de-escalation. We've called for a ceasefire. We've called for hostages to be released, and we've called – along with the United States – for the support for Joe Biden's peace plan. And I had discussions, of course, with the President and the Secretary of State Blinken and Jake Sullivan, the National Security Adviser, just over the weekend about these issues. We're very concerned about conflict rising and that's why for months now we have been saying that Australians who are in Lebanon should leave while the commercial aircraft and exits are available.
ADSHEAD: Prime Minister, I do appreciate your time in Western Australia. Thanks very much for joining us.
PRIME MINISTER: Thanks very much, Gary.