GARY ADSHEAD, HOST: As I speak to you, the Prime Minister of Australia, Anthony Albanese, is walking into the studio. So, I won't bore anyone any more, Prime Minister, with my stories of working at a holiday camp in Britain because you are joining me in the studio. How are you?
ANTHONY ALBANESE, PRIME MINISTER: Good to see you, Gary, what were you doing in the holiday camp?
ADSHEAD: Well, I was one of those, if you remember that program, Hi-De-Di!. Have you ever heard of that English program? So, in England they have holiday camps where they bring everyone together and they have activities because the weather's so bad over there, summer or winter, that they get them all together, have activities, keep the kids occupied.
PRIME MINISTER: They do a lot of that in the United States as well.
ADSHEAD: They have those kind of camps.
PRIME MINISTER: Yeah, it's not so common here.
ADSHEAD: Yeah, similar. If you pop your headphones on just in case we have some callers that come through and I'm sure we will. Welcome to the ABC studio, Prime Minister. Just first up, if I can get the ball rolling -
PRIME MINISTER: Terrible weather out there by the way.
ADSHEAD: Well, we need the rain. We need the rain.
PRIME MINISTER: I'm sure.
ADSHEAD: But is it a bit hairy is it in places?
PRIME MINISTER: Yeah, it sure is, yeah. There's trees down and it's -
ADSHEAD: We've got power outages, PM. So I'm not sure if you can fix that while you're here but we've got about 7,000 homes out at the moment.
PRIME MINISTER: I'm not surprised given the state of the weather. It was quite torrential rain.
ADSHEAD: Right, okay. We get these micro little sort of bursty things up in the hills particularly.
PRIME MINISTER: Yeah, well I was up in the Hills at doctors Surgery talking about Medicare and the bulk billing incentive we're tripling and Urgent Care Clinics and it was all nice and warm. We came out, half and half an hour later and it started.
ADSHEAD: Well you've just come from a cyclone, hopefully that won't repeat itself here. Just first up, your takeaway from the WA election on the weekend. Obviously a resounding result for Labor, but what do you take from that as Prime Minister with the federal election coming?
PRIME MINISTER: That the Labor brand is in good shape here in Western Australia. That the common position that my Government and Roger Cook's Government have of making more things here is something that resonated with the Western Australian public. The work that we've done together on infrastructure projects like the Metro project and roads projects, the vision that we have for a new Port. The work that we're doing on AUKUS, the work that we're doing on regional economic development together. WA, Roger’s Government was the first to sign up to the school resourcing standard. People used to call it all the Gonski reform years ago, and WA was at the head of the queue there in making a difference and signing up to make sure that every student gets the best start in life that's possible. And so I think it was a resounding victory. It's quite extraordinary for a third term government to receive what looks like 46 or 47 seats out of 59 in the Parliament. Both the Liberals and the Nationals will be reduced to single figures still.
ADSHEAD: Is it good for democracy though? Come on, do you think that sort of, we've had a fair imbalance since probably 2017, but certainly 2021. What do you say to people that think, ‘Crikey, we need some sort of balance in a Parliament because it's better for everyone if you have a robust opposition rather than one that's just continually licking its wounds from the last election’.
PRIME MINISTER: Well having, I've got an opposition with 50 odd seats and they just say no to everything. So it's pretty predictable. It doesn't add to democracy really. It's just people who say no, regardless of what's going on. I mean, Peter Dutton had the opportunity to stand up for Australia yesterday and he's blamed the Australian government for the fact that the Trump administration have put tariffs on every single country in the world that exports steel and aluminium. You know, so I don't think that adds much to political discourse.
ADSHEAD: I might come back to it, but I'll take a call. It's from Rhonda Kerr. It's talking about public housing. Hi, Rhonda.
RHONDA, LISTENER: Hi, Gary.
ADSHEAD: And the Prime Minister's here.
PRIME MINISTER: Hi, Rhonda.
RHONDA, LISTENER: Welcome. It's lovely to have you here in Perth, Prime Minister.
PRIME MINISTER: Thanks so much. It's always very welcoming here.
RHONDA, LISTENER: I have a question about housing. So I'm an older voter, and I'm aware that from 1947 to 1990, the Commonwealth Government provided funding to the states to build public housing using public housing workforce, using their own workforce. In 1997, John Howard withdrew that funding and the mantra was private good, public bad. And I think we've seen the consequences of that, particularly in the recent Productivity Commission Report that identified that not only is housing more unaffordable, but it's being built in a less efficient manner. There's insufficient innovation and insufficient research and development. My question to you, Prime Minister, is given that there's been some excellent outcomes from publicly built public housing, would you consider reinstating the funding to each of the states for them to build their own workforces, to build public housing?
ADSHEAD: Alright ok, thanks for that, Rhonda.
PRIME MINISTER: Well, thanks very much for the question. Of course, various state governments did have public works departments for a long period of time. That has tended to go to the private sector. But importantly, my government has put more money into public housing than any government in dollar terms with our Housing Australia Future Fund. That's $10 billion of which the interest payments will continue - like the earnings from that fund that we've created will go into creating public housing. In addition to that, we've had our Social Housing Accelerator. That's another $2 billion that we've put in for public and social and community housing as well. And what we're seeing as part of our $32 billion program is support for more public housing, more private rentals through our Build to Rent Scheme. But also we've modelled on the WA scheme, our Help to Buy Scheme, that's a shared equity scheme, so that for a new home, 40 per cent of it, up to 40 per cent can be co-owned, if you like, by the government. And then when that is sold, then the government gets paid back its share or people have the opportunity of buying down the government share over a period of time if they're in a position to do so. Now that's been really successful. Not only has it resulted in increased home ownership here in Western Australia, but it's also earned money for the government over a period of time as well. So it's a really practical initiative. We'll have some more to say about housing during the election campaign. The key, of course, is supply. We need more homes and one of the things that we've done as well is to address workforce. Regardless of who they work for, we don't have enough carpenters, electricians, et cetera. And Free TAFE is making an enormous difference there. And we're providing an incentive now, $10,000 for carpenters and joiners, apprentices in construction, payable in $2,500 lots to make sure they complete their apprenticeship as well. And the apprentices that I've spoken to, that has been incredibly warmly received.
ADSHEAD: Just if I can go back to you talking in relation to tariffs and so on. I know the comments of Peter Dutton saying that, you know, your government could have done more to give us a reprieve on those tariffs. Can I just ask you, is it true that he wouldn't take a phone call from you, Donald Trump?
PRIME MINISTER: No, we've had two phone calls.
ADSHEAD: Right.
PRIME MINISTER: That is, that is Peter Dutton being negative and not cheering for Australia. This is a decision made, as the public comments have been clear from people like Mr Navarro and others, the people who have key positions in the Trump Administration. They regard tariffs, in the President's own word, as a beautiful word. The most beautiful word in the English language he has said, is tariffs. Now, I think that tariffs are an act of economic self-harm. All they do is they push up prices. And in this decision, which is 25 per cent across the board, so every country is being hit with this, it doesn't change the comparative advantage of any country. The prices just go up for everybody. So, it shouldn't actually change the content of what the, what is imported into the United States. It might over a period of time if people build a factory to produce steel or produce aluminium, but you can't do that overnight. These tariffs came in at three o’clock yesterday afternoon. At four o’clock America wasn't producing any more steel or aluminium than they were at half past two yesterday afternoon.
ADSHEAD: So, no concern about Roger Cook in the last week of the election referring to JD Vance in the way that he did as a 'knob'. Did that hurt or hinder? Have you had any feedback from the Administration on that?
PRIME MINISTER: No. With respect, a whole lot of people have said a whole lot of things over a long period of time, including JD Vance, has had some interesting things to say about the person who he now serves as Vice President to, President Trump.
ADSHEAD: So would you prefer that the Premier hadn't said something like that?
PRIME MINISTER: Oh look, he was at a brekkie. I saw it. You know, he made a comment.
ADSHEAD: All right, Malcolm Turnbull, what about what he said? Sort of 24 hours before the sort of decision was announced that we'd be copping the tariffs.
PRIME MINISTER: Well, probably Malcolm's comments as a former Prime Minister would have been more noticed in the United States, it's fair to say. But people are entitled to have their say. I, as Prime Minister, try to be diplomatic and to engage in a constructive way. And I must say that both of the conversations I've had with President Trump have been just that. Have been constructive, have been courteous and have been respectful.
ADSHEAD: Did you want one face to face with him, by the way? That's the other issue that keeps being raised, that you should have got on a plane and gone there.
PRIME MINISTER: Well it made no difference, this is the nonsense. They will do anything rather than back Australia. What they're saying here is that the Trump administration would have made this decision, nothing to say about them, everything to say about Australia's interests. Now, the Prime Minister of Japan was there, they've been hit with this as well. Anyone who has had a meeting or a phone call or a conversation, none of this has changed any of the decisions which were foreshadowed very clearly. What I got with President Trump, and no other country got, was that he would consider, give serious consideration to an exemption. That's more than any other country got.
ADSHEAD: Ok, are there more tariffs coming? Are you worried about that? I know that agricultural sector has been coming out today saying, ‘Well, is this just the start and what will it mean for their industries?.
PRIME MINISTER: Well, I am worried about global trade. Yes, I am. As someone who supports free and fair trade, one in four Australian jobs is trade dependent. President Trump has been elected by the people of the United States. He has a clear agenda. It's one that supports tariffs. That is changing the way that the global economic system and global trade occurs. What we have done under my administration is work really hard to improve our trade relations, whether that be with ASEAN to our north, obviously China. The restoration of trade relationships there has meant more than $20 billion of exports are now travelling to China. The agreement that we did with the United Arab Emirates is a very significant one indeed. It will open up the Middle East markets as well. As well as we're seeing the European agreement, particularly with the UK agreement, has meant considerable benefit for our wine, our meat products, all being exported in far greater numbers and at high value into the UK market.
ADSHEAD: So you're not, you're not concerned? Or have you got a heads up that there might be other tariffs on the hit list at the moment?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, you have to have a look at what his comments are. There's nothing secret about what the Trump administration's agenda is and we are seeing a response to that in the stock market as well over recent days as well, with the impact on world trade could have a significant impact on the global economy. That is something that we have to recognise. Something we have to deal with. And one way that we're dealing with that is making sure that we continue to diversify our trading relationships. We continue to engage constructively with the United States. But if you have a look at the breakdown in relations between the US and Canada for example, it has been rather extraordinary. I don't know about you, Gary, but if you had have said that relations would get to where they are ever in our lifetime between the US and Canada, I would have thought that it was something out of fiction. But it is what it is. It's there for all to see. And we can do our best to prepare, but this will have and is having, it's not something that's in the future. It is having an impact on global markets as we speak.
ADSHEAD: Wayne's there. G'day, Wayne. You've got a question for the Prime Minister?
PRIME MINISTER: G’day, Wayne.
WAYNE, LISTENER: Hi, Prime Minister and Gary. Prime Minister, about 20 years ago you spent an hour in my boardroom with me, when you were, I think you might have been on the backbench, not sure, but you were talking about aged care. And today I'm asking some questions about that.
PRIME MINISTER: Twenty years ago I was the Aged Care Shadow Minister, probably. A long time ago. I'm not sure what board meeting it was, but I certainly had that experience. What's your question?
WAYNE, LISTENER: Look, I'm very supportive of the additional funding that came into the sector a couple of years ago. A big fan of minimum staffing ratios, and a big fan of the reforms that have happened to date - and I know there's more to come. My concern, Prime Minister, is that it's halfway through March, we're supposed to be getting the rules for the new Act to be applied by the end of March, but there's some 10 or 15 pieces of documentation that the sector still lacks in both residential and supported home care. And I don't think I'll get a committed answer from you today, but would you consider a further deferral for even a period of three months for all of the rules, the other documents, to arrive so that they can be put into practice by both providers and clearly understood by care recipients and their families?
ADSHEAD: Alright, yeah. Thanks, Wayne.
PRIME MINISTER: Thank you, Wayne. Look, I have had a discussion with Anika Wells, who is an amazing Minister, I've got to say. We are undertaking the biggest reform in aged care this century, both for aged care residents, but also home care reforms, which I think is what you are referring to. We have been consulting very widely, making sure that those things are understood. I think there will be further engagement. I am aware of the details that you speak about, and Anika Wells is working her way through that as we lead into the Budget in just a couple of weeks’ time. Can I say this, with some of the reforms I remember before the last election being, I think in this studio, speaking about putting nurses back into nursing homes 99 per cent of the time. That is now there. There are literally millions of extra minutes every day being provided for aged care residents. We've done that through a range of measures - lifting the wages of people who work in aged care. The reforms that we have done working with the sector cooperatively. And it is so significant. More change, I think, that is positive during this term of government than at any term that I've served going back to 1996. And what we need to do, the next phase is the implementation of the Aged Care Legislation that was only carried at the end of last year and that's what you referred to. But we'll make sure that we get it right, and certainly none of it should be rushed. We need to make sure that people are given the dignity and respect they deserve in their later years.
ADSHEAD: All right, we'll rush through some callers now. Lou is there. Hi, Lou.
LOU, LISTENER: Hi.
PRIME MINISTER: Hi Lou.
LOU, LISTENER: Hi Anthony, hi. Look, in the lead up to the state election, the Nature Positive Legislation that everyone had been waiting for a long time suddenly kind of went off the boil. And I just wonder who heavied who? Did you heavy Roger Cook or did he heavy you for that? And do you see a connection between Labor's complicity with big oil and gas and your capture with the vote, the record vote for the Greens at this election and one of the government's nearly losing her seat to someone who opposes that capture of the state by big oil and gas?
ADSHEAD: Fremantle, yeah that was interesting.
PRIME MINISTER: No hyperbole there, Lou. But can I make this point. We got 25 votes out of 76 in the Senate. It did not have the support of the Coalition. It didn't have the support of Jacqui Lambie and some of the crossbenchers. And it didn't have the support of Fatima Payman, who's a WA Senator here. It didn't have the numbers. Simple as that. And we could have at any time passed that legislation if there was a majority for it. There wasn't a majority for it. And that's a direct result of the democracy that we're in.
ADSHEAD: All right, thank you very much for that. We'll go to Sean. Hello, Sean, how you going?
SEAN, LISTENER: G'day, Prime Minister. And Gary, how are you?
PRIME MINISTER: G'day.
SEAN, LISTENER: It's World Kidney Health Day today. I'm just ringing up, We've got a problem with people living with kidney disease in Australia And by 2050, we're trying to eradicate people being on dialysis. At the moment, all the hospitals, especially in Western Australia, are full. And I'm just wondering in your, If you get into power again, are you willing to put in your Budget some funding, so into research into kidney disease and build and get some better machines and stuff?
ADSHEAD: All right.
PRIME MINISTER: Thanks so much for the question. I'll certainly raise it with Mark Butler, the Health Minister, the research question. With regard to funding, we've put substantial funding into increased dialysis, particularly as part of our Central Australian strategy. Of course, Indigenous First Nations people are particularly affected. Of course, it can affect anyone, but First Nations people are disproportionately impacted by kidney disease. And I will have a chat, though, with Mark Butler, our Health Minister, about the research issue.
ADSHEAD: Prime Minister, something I'm going to be doing after four o’clock is talking to a wildlife expert about what on earth went on with that video, a young woman from America visiting here, picking up a baby wombat and taking it away from its mother. I know you've reacted to this.
PRIME MINISTER: It’s a shocker. You know, a wombat is a slow moving, peaceful animal, and to take a baby wombat from this mum was distressing, quite clearly. And I found it really distressing the video that was there. I don't know what the hell this woman thought she was doing. You know, there's a lot of, a lot wilder animals in Australia she could have got into trouble with if she'd picked up their babies. But to pick up a baby wombat, it is not on.
ADSHEAD: Am I over the top in thinking that, I know that Tony Burke's having a look at it, but I mean, is there a place now for her to be found and sent out of the country because she’s on a visa? Or is that an exaggeration?
PRIME MINISTER: The question that's being looked at is whether she has breached her visa by, she's here on a tourist visa and whether she is earning income through this, being an influencer, which would require a different visa.
ADSHEAD: Okay.
PRIME MINISTER: And so that is certainly being looked at by the department. They look at these things when they pop up publicly. I'll await that. But common sense tells you, and I agree with Tony Burke's comment that she'll be no loss when she leaves.
ADSHEAD: Last call I'm going to take, and I'm sorry folks that we couldn't get to all of you. But David, and I've got about , David, I've probably got about 45 seconds, so go for it.
DAVID, LISTENER: Sure. Hi guys. I'm just ringing regarding the HECS debt. I've got two girls. One who's got about $120,000 plus dollar HECS debt. And another one who's got about a $60,000 HECS debt. Certainly the 20 per cent that the government is talking about taking off the HECS debt will be a great start. Prime Minister, have you thought about any other measures to reduce that HECS debt like getting the employers to pay for that?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, we have reduced it already by $3 billion with legislation that we passed to change the way the indexing happens. We'll take 20 per cent off the debt of both of your daughters, and indeed everyone else. All of the millions of Australians who have debts will have their debt reduced by an average of $5500 if we're elected.
ADSHEAD: Alright, Prime Minister, as always, thanks very much for giving us your time. I know that we've got a federal election. I haven't asked you the date for that, but that's life.
PRIME MINISTER: May.
ADSHEAD: May. There you go. May 5? I don’t know. Thanks very much for coming on in.