GRAEME GOODINGS, HOST: Prime Minister, good morning to you. Thanks for joining us today.
ANTHONY ALBANESE, PRIME MINISTER: Good morning. Good to be with you.
GRAEME GOODINGS, HOST: You phoned us. Obviously you've got some good news.
PRIME MINISTER: We certainly do have some good news, which is we'll reduce the maximum price of medicines under the Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme to $25. The last time that medicines cost $25 was back in 2004. So, we decreased it just a couple of years ago in 2023 from $42.50 down to $30. This is a further decrease helping with cost of living while putting that downward pressure on inflation. And of course, we have frozen the maximum cost for pensioners and concession cardholders to just $7.70 and that freezes in place until 2029.
GOODINGS: It will be obviously be a popular move, but the Coalition has immediately said they will match the offer. So, doesn't that neutralise it somewhat?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, I think people will look at what Peter Dutton says, but they'll look at what he did when he was in government. He tried to, as Health Minister, introduce legislation - he did introduce legislation to increase the cost of medicines by $5 at the same time as he tried to introduce a co-payment. Attacks basically every time people visited the GP or a separate payment every time people visited a hospital. He's someone who can't be trusted on health, can't be trusted on Medicare because his record is there for all to see. And he's got a $600 billion nuclear plan that has to be paid for with cuts. And the first place they'll go to, of course, is health and then education. In the 2014 budget, when he was Health Minister, they ripped $50 billion from the health system and $30 billion from the education system in that horror budget that saw Tony Abbott not make it to two years as Prime Minister.
GOODINGS: Cost of living is obviously going to be high on the agenda. And most important for most Australians, are you happy with the way you've handled over the past three years?
PRIME MINISTER: What we've done is to address cost of living pressures. We know that people have been doing it tough. Global inflation's had an impact. The long tail of COVID is there. It's been a difficult period for Australians and a difficult period for people right around the world. But we haven't just wrung our hands. What we've done is put our shoulder to the wheel with the energy rebate, with cheaper medicines, cheaper childcare, free TAFE, the tax cuts that we delivered for every single Australian taxpayer. And clearly we have turned the corner. We now have inflation with a 2 in front – 2.4. It was 6 when we were elected. Real wages are increasing over and above the inflation rate for five quarters in a row. We had those tax cuts. Interest rates began to increase before we came to government. Now they've begun to decrease and that's a good thing. There's still more to do which is why we've announced this cheaper medicines policy. Even cheaper today, bringing those costs down to $25.
GOODINGS: Now you've presided over the worst housing crisis the nation has seen in the past two years. We've allowed almost a million migrants into the country. How can you fix that?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, what we need to do is to increase housing supply and we're working very closely with the Malinauskas Government to do that. We've got a comprehensive plan, whether it be social and affordable housing through our Housing Australia Future Fund, whether it be increased private rentals. We've got a Build to Rent scheme that will result in hundreds of thousands of rental properties being built. And we've got a Help to Buy scheme helping Australians into home ownership as well. So, we have, we are addressing these issues. It is about supply. There was always going to be a short-term spike because our borders were closed. And migration numbers, the population numbers are less today than they were anticipated to be back in 2019 under the former Government.
GOODINGS: Prime Minister –
PRIME MINISTER: We're also reducing migration by putting caps on student numbers – legislation that the Coalition voted against.
GOODINGS: Prime Minister, a question we're asked on this station all the time is – where's the promised $275 cheaper electricity bills?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, what we've had is global inflation has had an impact and the Russian invasion of Ukraine saw a global spike in energy prices. We're not immune from that. But what we are doing is continuing to invest in supply as your commentator said during that last interview you were conducting as well. We have had unreliability in the energy network because the coal-fired power stations are reaching the end of their life and are more unreliable and that has placed pressure on as well.
GOODINGS: Can you promise, can you promise cheaper electricity bills if you're re-elected?
PRIME MINISTER: What we can promise to do is to make sure that we fund the cheapest form of new energy which we know is renewables, backed by firming capacity with gas, and that that is the way forward. Not a $600 billion nuclear energy plan which won't see any energy produced until the 2040s but which Australians will have to pay for to the tune of $600 billion.
GOODINGS: Gas is important for our power supplies to back up renewables and yet we're told it could be running out in short supply in the few years. What is your plan to overcome that?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, we want to increase gas in the system. We have a Future Gas Strategy that we released last year. We're working with the sector to make sure that there is increased supply and indeed, the report today was positive. We have signed an agreement to bring more Australian gas into the domestic market as well – is important for a further three years to 2029. And we inherited, effectively, a shambles. There was no guarantee of domestic supply of gas. We intervened to put a cap on gas and coal prices and the Gas Code has been very important in that securing affordable gas for local businesses.
GOODINGS: Would you approve more mining of gas?
PRIME MINISTER: Certainly, subject to environmental approvals. We're working on a range of projects and I want to see projects like Narrabri in New South Wales and others proceed. I've said that it needs – we need more firming capacity in the system, whether it be gas or whether it be batteries. Very important as well. We know that gas plays an important role in the manufacturing sector as well. And just this week I've been up in Gladstone, where Rio Tinto, a major producer, of course, of aluminium, providing their energy with renewables. But it's backed by gas, which gives it the confidence and the firming capacity that it needs.
GOODINGS: Your Government's pledged to reduce carbon emissions. Are we on track to meet those targets?
PRIME MINISTER: We are. We're very confident that we can meet those targets. Renewables has jumped up to in excess of 40 per cent of the energy market. We also have seen with plans such as emissions reduction in motor vehicles and across the sectors. One of the things about human ingenuity is that new technology comes on faster than people think, and that is what is occurring. We know that 2024 was the hottest year globally on record and we continue to break these records. We continue to see, globally, more extreme and more frequent extreme weather events. And we do need to reduce our emissions and that's why we're very serious about reaching net zero by 2050.
GOODINGS: But do you think we can make a difference? I mean, the US has bailed out of the Paris Accord. The UK says they're not going anywhere at the moment in that direction. They’ll never reach their targets. Other countries aren't going to reach them. China isn't even trying. So, why is Australia making the sacrifice that it is?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, in fact, China is doing record investment in renewables. The UK is committed to the Paris Accord and has a target that's much higher than the Australian target, as is all of the European nations through the European Union. In addition to that, it's true that President Trump has a different policy, but that is a decision for him. But overwhelmingly what the globe sees is the cost as well of inaction.
GOODINGS: But we make up less than 1 per cent of global emissions. We can't make any difference.
PRIME MINISTER: Well, that's the sort of logic that says you should just throw stuff out of your car window rather than keep it because one bit of litter doesn't make a difference.
GOODINGS: But we have spiralling power prices that people can't afford to pay. It's getting out of hand. People want relief and they're not getting it because we're going for these targets that we can't meet.
PRIME MINISTER: Well, they are getting relief. We've provided energy bill relief, something that's opposed by the Coalition. And the cheapest form of new energy – there is nothing to stop someone going out there and investing in a coal-fired power plant except for the market. Because it doesn't stack up, because it's not the cheapest form of new energy because it would increase prices. That's what's stopping it. That’s why.
GOODINGS: The more renewables we have, though, the more the prices go up. I mean, how do you justify that? –
PRIME MINISTER: That’s not right. That’s not right
GOODINGS: Well, the prices are going up, aren't they?
PRIME MINISTER: Because of global impacts which are there.
GOODINGS: What's the global impact on renewable energy?
PRIME MINISTER: We saw under the former government. We saw – well, the unreliability in the network through the Australian Energy Market Operator is because of the ageing of coal-fired power stations. We saw that sort of logic from Barnaby Joyce and others when the Coalition were in government. And guess what, coal-fired power stations were closing on their watch. That's what occurred right around Australia. And no new coal-fired power plants were built under the almost decade in which they were in office.
GOODINGS. So, all coal-fired power stations shut down, what are we left with?
PRIME MINISTER: What we're left with – well, they are continuing at the moment. But many of them, for example, Western Australia will see its last coal-fired power plant at Collie closed in 2027. And what we are seeing there is renewables backed by gas in order to ensure solid supply, but also to ensure that the energy mix is as cheap as it can possibly be.
GOODINGS. So, gas has got to play a continuing role?
PRIME MINISTER: Yes, and that's why we have a Future Gas Strategy that we announced and that we're implementing.
GOODINGS: See, South Australia is pushing towards 100 per cent renewables by 2027. And yet when, on the downside – we have the highest power prices in Australia and when the sun isn't shining and the wind isn't blowing we import gas at a huge price from Victoria. Is that the answer?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, South Australia is also recognising the importance of the role of gas. That's been recognised. I spoke at a forum with Premier Malinauskas just a couple of weeks ago there in Adelaide and we are very much on the same page.
GOODINGS. So, you would be happy for us to mine for gas?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, that's a decision for the South Australian Government
GOODINGS: Because renewables can't do it on their own, can they?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, renewables backed by firming capacity, whether it be battery or gas, there's a range of firming capacity.
GOODINGS: Well, we know batteries are a long, long way from being able to fill the breach. They can tap into the system and cover up little ditches here and there, but they cannot provide serious backup.
PRIME MINISTER: They can do much more than that.
GOODINGS: No.
PRIME MINISTER: They can do much – they can do much more than that.
GOODINGS: The Hornsdale battery, the biggest in Australia, one of the biggest in the world. If Adelaide lost power, it could power Adelaide for eight minutes.
PRIME MINISTER: Well, they can do much more than that. Batteries –
GOODINGS: We haven’t seen them though.
PRIME MINISTER: Increasingly, the technology with batteries is getting better and better, yet they will continue to play a role.
GOODINGS: You could say that about nuclear too, couldn’t you?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, except its some time in the 2040s and see if you can get someone on your radio program, an investor anywhere in Australia from the private sector, who will put their hand up and put their own dough in, or corporate dough in, to fund nuclear. The reason why the Coalition have had to go to government-funded, taxpayer-funded nuclear power to the tune of $600 billion sometime in the 2040s, that's because the private sector won't touch it with a barge pole because it doesn't stack up.
GOODINGS: But you're subsidising the renewable sector too, aren't you?
PRIME MINISTER: And if you have $600 billion for a nuclear plan, you will have to cut Medicare, you'll have to cut education, you'll have to cut services. And Peter Dutton has said they will make cuts but he won't tell you what they are until after the election. That's one of the big contrasts that are there at this election, that will be held in May, is whether we are going to continue to back renewables firmed by gas with the coal-fired power stations continuing to be producing energy but in an increasingly unreliable way, backed by firming capacity, or whether we'll go down this nuclear fantasy road that no one will support, that they didn't themselves support during their decade in office. They sat back. One of the reasons why we're under pressure today and the Australian Energy Market Operator makes this very clear. They came up with an Integrated Systems Plan, the former Government, sat back, talked about coal-fired power stations remaining open at the same time that they were closing and didn't have the business certainty that was required. We've provided that business certainty through our targets, backed by the Safeguard Mechanism that was supported by industry, supported by unions, supported by the conservation movement in the mainstream sense. And that is why we need to provide business with that investment certainty.
GOODINGS. So, Prime Minister, final question. You're happy to go to the election with your current energy policy?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, we will be going to the election with our policies that will provide support for Australians, including our energy rebates and support that were opposed by the Coalition like they opposed our cheaper medicines, our free TAFE, our tax cuts for every taxpayer. We have provided cost of living support. The Coalition have opposed every single one of those measures. And you'll note that Peter Dutton on a day-to-day basis will raise – now he's got two referendums he wants to hold next term, various things he wants to talk about, anything but cost of living measures.
GOODINGS. So, Prime Minister, finally, when are we going to the election?
PRIME MINISTER: May.
GOODINGS: Okay. Thank you so much for your time today. The Prime Minister of Australia, Anthony Albanese.