ALI CLARKE, HOST: The Prime Minister of the country, Anthony Albanese. Good morning.
MAX BURFORD, HOST: I just turned the microphone on for the Prime Minister.
CLARKE: Do you know what? Shane Lowe has been so nervous about you coming in, not just because you come in with, you know, the Federal Police.
ANTHONY ALBANESE, PRIME MINISTER: Was that him singing?
CLARKE: Yeah, that's him singing.
PRIME MINISTER: Awesome effort.
SHANE LOWE, HOST: Thank you very much. That's nice of you.
BURFORD: He's blushing.
CLARKE: He's nervous because when the Governor came in last year, we tricked him and told him that you had to bow all the time.
PRIME MINISTER: So, he kept doing it.
LOWE: Yeah, he did.
CLARKE: Yeah, I did.
PRIME MINISTER: Yeah, no one bows before me, which is a good thing. We're an egalitarian country.
CLARKE: Well, we're going to get to that in a moment. But we are giving people the biggest decision to make of their life. You make a few decisions, I suppose, in Canberra. But we're giving people the chance to take their family to Disneyland, or -
BURFORD: Or you can leave the family at home, just tickets for two to Vegas. What would you pick, Prime Minister?
PRIME MINISTER: Oh, you've got to go with Disneyland.
BURFORD: No, you don't!
PRIME MINISTER: I've done both. But if you take the family, here's the big tip too, if you stay at the Disney Hotel, you can get into Disneyland earlier.
BURFORD: Look at this guy.
CLARKE: I thought the picture was a Minnie and a Mickey.
PRIME MINISTER: Earlier and get on the rides early. And so, you get to do all the really good rides without waiting in the huge, big queue. So, there's a tip, listeners.
BURFORD: You're a big Disney head.
PRIME MINISTER: I've been twice. The first time I went by myself.
CLARKE: That sounds like the saddest thing to happen at the happiest place on earth.
PRIME MINISTER: It was awesome.
CLARKE: Was it?
PRIME MINISTER: And then Universal Studios, it was great.
CLARKE: All right, well, there you go. Mix123.com.au if you want to be like the Prime Minister.
PRIME MINISTER: Growing up, I never went to theme parks.
CLARKE: So, you've made up for it?
PRIME MINISTER: And it's this deep psychological trauma that I have from being the son of a single mum and never getting to go. Because all the kids when I grew up, would all go, like the council workers and stuff, like they'd go to the Christmas parties at Luna Park in Sydney, and I never got to go. So, when I got old enough, I was determined to never miss a theme park. And so, I'm over it now, I've got through that therapy. Vegas is pretty good, too, mind you.
BURFORD: There we go, I reckon I could get you around. We'll talk more, we'll talk more later.
CLARKE: Before this is out, we want the one story from the Prime Minister that happened in Vegas.
BURFORD: I want the Vegas story.
CLARKE: Now, you have been in town a couple of times. You were in town yesterday announcing the Port Bonython Hydrogen Hub. Heaps of jobs, heaps of expenditure in green energy. You were in town last week to drive the Yes vote. If I gave you a magic wand, a Disney wand right now, Prime Minister, and took you back months and months and months to when you really announced and started this drive to the referendum, would you have done anything differently?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, you can always look at things that you could do better. But is it the right thing to do? Absolutely. It is the right thing to do. And it's always difficult to change the Constitution. But Indigenous Australians have asked for this. They had years and years leading up to the Uluru Statement in 2017. Previous governments said that they would have a referendum, going back to John Howard said he'd have a referendum. And of course, it never happened. We haven't had one this century. So, for those people like Noel Pearson and Tom Calma and Aunty Pat Anderson and others who've been campaigning for this for year, after year, after year, eventually you had to give the Australian people a say. And that's what we're doing. And I'm still hopeful that when people look at what the question is, it's such a simple, gracious request, just for two things, to recognise First Nations people in our nation's founding document, and secondly, just to give them a non-binding advisory committee to advise on matters that affect them. That's just common courtesy.
CLARKE: Do you understand or accept that perhaps the way this has been communicated to the majority of us, that it has allowed for deep, deep division? You know, I was walking in Bowden and Roz, who was out there, she was putting up her Yes corflutes for the fourth or fifth time because they've been ripped down. Driving down Sir Donald Bradman Drive, if you do it right now, there is graffiti-ed Yes. There was awful abuse hurled at people who were here for the launch of the No vote. Do you accept that the way that it has been communicated by your Government, and that you didn't go into this with both parties in a bipartisan effort, that you have maybe shot this good idea in the foot?
PRIME MINISTER: No, I don't. We tried, Ali. And the sign was at the beginning, bear in mind, the beginning of the term, Peter Dutton appointed Julian Leeser as the Shadow Minister for Indigenous Affairs and the Shadow Attorney-General. So, the person in charge of the specific areas, both of them, the law and Indigenous affairs. He had a history going back, a proud history going back to 2012 at least, of engagement in this. I took that as a positive sign. And I was with Julian Leeser on Sunday at the Uniting Church in Ashfield, launching the United Church's Yes campaign. We have business, we have Indigenous groups, over 80 per cent of Indigenous Australians support a Yes vote.
CLARKE: But then why are all the polls saying this will absolutely fail? Like, where is that communication breakdown?
BURFORD: 56-36 yesterday, I think.
CLARKE: And has it surprised you that the conspiracy theorists have been so venomous?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, some of the conspiracy theories, this is about one world government, and it's about a whole range of new taxes will be paid, and you'll lose your backyards. We've seen those scare campaigns before. We saw it with marriage equality, that it was going to end and interfere with the marriage of existing men and women who were married. We saw it with the Apology to the Stolen Generations. All of those fear campaigns, when they were passed and through, of course, were shown to have no substance. The fear campaign here is also, I believe, very strongly not valid. There's nothing to fear here. There's only something to gain, nothing to lose. And this simple proposition, a decision was made by Peter Dutton after the Aston by-election to say, vote No. I guess there were signs there, he was the only existing Member of Parliament who walked out on the Apology to the Stolen Generations. That was a unifying moment, though. And this should have been a unifying moment. And I believe that if Australians vote Yes, it will bring the country together. And one of the things that is occurring, though, is that we're having a greater debate about the gap which is there between Indigenous and non-Indigenous Australians than we've had for 50 years. And so, people will be much more conscious about the eight-year life expectancy gap. When you say to people, you know there's more chance of an Indigenous young male going to jail than going to university, that's a wake-up call for us to do something better, to do something different. And a starting point is listening to Indigenous Australians themselves. And that's why there isn't a single person who's involved from the Indigenous communities, who was involved in the development of the Uluru Statement from the Heart, who has said to me, 'No, let's just kick it down the road again', which is what we've done for a long period of time. Let's give Australians a say.
CLARKE: Well, look, stick around and we're going to give you more of a say, next. We might even let you get to choose a song.
BURFORD: Yes.
CLARKE: Our boss is going to come running around here. I figure you're the biggest boss in this country, so that'll work, won't it?
BURFORD: Imagine our boss telling off the boss of Australia.
PRIME MINISTER: I did a few DJ gigs.
BURFORD: Let's go, come on, MC Albo in da house!
PRIME MINISTER: 'DJ Albo' was the name. Thank you.
CLARKE: We are joined with, I mean, just an average Tuesday morning, with none other than the Prime Minister of this country.
PRIME MINISTER: Do you have to play that again?
BURFORD: How very dare you.
CLARKE: The bodyguards have taken a few steps closer to the studio, it must be admitted, I tell you what.
BURFORD: Prime Minister, this weekend AFL Grand Final. You're a Hawthorn man, first of all?
PRIME MINISTER: I am a Hawthorn man, it's been a sad period, but we had many, many good years.
BURFORD: This weekend will you be 'Anthony Alba-lion-ese' or 'Anthony Alba-pie-anese'?
CLARKE: I like that.
PRIME MINISTER: I've got to make the call. I'm going to the game. I'm torn. I just hope it's a good game. So many of the grand finals have been blowouts.
BURFORD: I'm going to need you to pick one, though.
CLARKE: Come on.
PRIME MINISTER: I'm going to go for a draw.
BURFORD: No!
CLARKE: Always wanting the votes, does the PM.
BURFORD: Well, most of us in the studio are going for the Lions. We have a horse in this race. I wanted to know if you have any, I mean, it's a slightly specific question, but do you have a favourite Brisbane Lions dominant ruckman from 1997 to 1999?
PRIME MINISTER: Of course, I do. Matthew Clarke.
BURFORD: And why would he be your favourite, Prime Minister?
PRIME MINISTER: Because you told me he was.
CLARKE: On a scale of dreaminess, though, Matthew Clarke versus Peter Malinauskas? I mean, come on.
PRIME MINISTER: No, one beats Mali.
CLARKE: There it is.
PRIME MINISTER: Mali's made it more difficult for everyone in political life.
BURFORD: What's it like, you go to an announcement with him, yesterday even, you're standing there, and you have to know that everyone there has seen Mali in his Speedos.
CLARKE: With this shirt off.
BURFORD: And has been pretty impressed with it.
PRIME MINISTER: Well, the good thing is, Mali keeps his shirt on at the press conferences, so that makes it much more doable. But he's a lovely bloke, too. We get on exceptionally well. And I think he's doing a great job here in SA.
CLARKE: Christy has called from Blakeview on 13 18 23. Christy, you are on with Prime Minister. Do you have a question for him?
PRIME MINISTER: G'day, Christy.
CALLER: I do. Good morning, Prime Minister. How are you?
PRIME MINISTER: I'm very well.
CALLER: That's good. My question is, do you have any regrets as Prime Minister? And if you could change anything, what would it be?
PRIME MINISTER: Oh, gee whiz. Look, my mentor was a fellow called Tom Uren. And he was an amazing guy who was a Minister in the Whitlam and Hawke Government, and he was a former POW under the Japanese for four years. So, he was captured on Timor, and did Changi, and the Burma Siam railway, was in Japan. And he used to say to me two things. He used to say, 'Son, you got to learn something new every day and you've got to get better every day.' So I, all the time, try to analyse what I'm doing. Can I do it better? How could I have done it better? And it's always the case that you've got to try to improve. And I think being in Parliament a long time, like when I became Prime Minister, I benefited from having been a Minister in that period between 2007, and I was Deputy Prime Minister in 2013. So, you think things through. And all the time you can do things better, I think. And I just try to improve each and every day.
CLARKE: What's the coolest thing that you got the moment you became Prime Minister? I mean, we were joking before about the bodyguards and all that sort of stuff.
BURFORD: 40 of them, you have.
CLARKE: Well, not all the time.
BURFORD: No, it rotates. They've got rosters.
CLARKE: But what was the time where, you must have, as a person, and I think most people know you grew up as a houso, your mum did the most incredible job to give you an education. She knew how important that was. What was that moment when you became the Prime Minister of this country where you sat back and went, 'Oh, look at this, this is amazing'.
PRIME MINISTER: Well, it was pretty quick. Because on the Monday after the election, the election was May 21, so Monday morning, 9am we get sworn in by about, well before midday, we were on the plane going to the Quad leaders meeting in Tokyo.
BURFORD: Of course.
PRIME MINISTER: And so, it was, talk about hit the ground running. So, I walk into a room, and I'm with President Joe Biden, Prime Minister Modi of India, and Prime Minister Kishida of Japan. And it was like, 'Okay'.
BURFORD: We're away
PRIME MINISTER: This is real, off we go. But on the plane on the way up as well, we had briefings from the head of the Defence Force, head of Foreign Affairs, head of all the departments. It was a pretty intense first few days. And I think that really helped because it didn't give me time to think too much about mundane things, it was straight into it.
CLARKE: Into the big stuff.
PRIME MINISTER: And with decisions to be made. And so, it became very real, very early.
CLARKE: Well, look, as the Prime Minister of the country, we will give you a choice here that not many people get. You get to choose this next song, because I know you then have to leave the studio and move on with your day. What song would you like to walk out of this studio with?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, given I'm about to walk, The Proclaimers, 500 Miles.
CLARKE: Have you actually seen them? Have you actually seen them?
PRIME MINISTER: I saw them at the Enmore Theatre, which is in my electorate, a long time ago. At the time when this was their big hit. But they had a fantastic, the first album is awesome, with the two twins looking at each other. I've still got it on vinyl. And I've got Sunshine on Leith as well, the second album. And the great thing about the gig was that everyone was jumping up and down, very excited, and the floor went, gave way, at the Enmore Theatre.
CLARKE: Get out!
PRIME MINISTER: And people just disappeared, about six feet down. The band kept playing. They kept playing and people kept dancing. I was like, 'Oh, well, there's people have disappeared over there'.
CLARKE: Well, the thing that I absolutely love -
PRIME MINISTER: It's been renovated since during the pandemic, by the way. Its now, I think the floors more solid, although it did happen again in recent years.
CLARKE: The thing I've absolutely loved is while you're telling this story, the AFP have come in. Your minders are waving. You've got to now disappear because you're off to a very, very busy day.
PRIME MINISTER: They're pushy, aren't they?
BURFORD: But you're too deep in a Proclaimers story.
CLARKE: DJ Albo, thank you very, very much.
PRIME MINISTER: You've got to focus. Thanks for having me on the program.