PATRICIA KARVELAS, HOST: Prime Minister, welcome to RN Breakfast.
ANTHONY ALBANESE, PRIME MINISTER: Good morning, Patricia.
KARVELAS: The Greens have confirmed housing negotiations will resume this week. Prime Minister, they've said they've cut back on their demands. Are you also willing to increase what you're offering?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, we have a very clear position here, Patricia. And it’s one we have a mandate for, the creation of a $10 billion Housing Australia Future Fund that will provide at least $500 million, so we've already ensured that it's a floor rather than a ceiling. So a minimum that that contribution each and every year, that's about 30,000 homes being built in the first five years, including 4000 for women and children escaping domestic violence, including funding reserve for fixing up Indigenous remote housing, funding reserve for veterans at risk of homelessness. So this is a really practical plan. We are investing, this is just one part of our housing plan, along with the $1.6 billion that we put to extend the Commonwealth-State Housing Agreement by a year. Along with the $2 billion that we contributed as a result of the surplus in June to State and Territory Governments. Along with $2 billion for community housing, along with the incentive we put in the Budget for private rentals to be built that will result in up to 250,000 being built, along with our increased support for rent assistance. This is just one part of a plan, and the Greens keep changing their position but what they consistently do is refuse to support voting for this additional housing.
KARVELAS: Well, no, they're trying to get more in this plan, that's what they are saying they're trying to do.
PRIME MINISTER: Well they are voting for nothing, and right now -
KARVELAS: But they are negotiating, they are trying to negotiate. So are you also willing to negotiate?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, Patricia, this has been one of their nonsenses. Negotiations are due to resume this week, you just said. I talked to Adam Bandt on the weekend, I talk to people in the Greens, as do our Ministers with crossbenchers right across the board. There's been substantial negotiations that occurred already and we’ve agreed.
KARVELAS: Okay, what happened in that conversation with Adam Bandt on the weekend?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, I don't negotiate on Radio National. We have discussions all of the time and the truth is that people like Jacqui Lambie and Tammy Tyrrell and David Pocock, have agreed to support the legislation. We've already made changes to the legislation, but this is just common sense. What the Greens ask for though, isn't to negotiate with us, it’s to negotiate with every State Premier and every Chief Minister about matters that are completely within the domain of State and Territory Governments so that's something that can't be done.
KARVELAS: But there is National Cabinet, Prime Minister, are you prepared to offer states money to control rents?
PRIME MINISTER: States are doing their own work on support for rentals, each of them with different histories, with different circumstances are dealing with these issues. We provided $2 billion for public housing for the States coming forward. The advice that we got at that time was that was the maximum amount. See it's no good, the Greens talk about figures and money like it's monopoly. Like you can just promise an amount and something will happen. What we wanted to do was to make sure, what's the maximum amount that the capacity is there with skill shortages, with supply chain issues in the economy? What's the most we could do? And the advice that we got was that $2 billion was the right amount of an additional injection. Now, in addition to that, we will be negotiating out with States and Territories the Commonwealth State Housing Agreement. We extended it by one to allow those negotiations to occur. Now what needs to occur when you negotiate with States and Territories is you go into those negotiations, not saying the Commonwealth will give X amount of dollars, regardless of what States and Territories do, because then you'll just see what occurred, for example, in New South Wales was that there was less public housing at the end of the Coalition Government's 12 years than there was at the beginning. So Commonwealth money goes in state money goes out, what you need to do is negotiate in a sensible way.
KARVELAS: Do you accept though Prime Minister, I know you've outlined all of the things that you're currently doing and everyone would accept that. But do you accept that the housing crisis when it comes to rents is so serious in this country that it will involve more action from the Commonwealth?
PRIME MINISTER: States are doing it, I accept that we have a Federation in this country, States are doing it. And what I'm doing and sat down and we agreed at the last National Cabinet meeting was that we have an agreement to progress, more coordination on renters' rights, but it won't be the same in every State and Territory. We can't just abolish the Federation in order to pass this legislation. But to be very clear, just one of the community housing providers that we were with last Friday in Brisbane has 3,500 homes ready to be built, the DAs are approved and the only blockage to that is the Greens, the Liberals and Nationals and One Nation in this new No-alition in the Senate, saying no. If you support more public housing, you have to vote for this legislation.
KARVELAS: So just to be clear, before I move on to another issue, you said you spoke to the Greens leader Adam Bandt over the weekend, will there be more conversations between you and Adam Bandt to try and get a deal to get the Greens’ support on housing that involves, you perhaps, looking at changes to that bill?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, Adam Bandt is on leave at the moment. We’ve reintroduced, we will be reintroducing our legislation, to the Parliament today. The Greens need to vote for this legislation. You can't say that you're supporting housing supply and more public housing and then vote against it.
KARVELAS: So you're not prepared to do any more negotiating?
PRIME MINISTER: No, I'm not prepared to negotiate on Radio National Patricia. People talk all the time across the Parliament, all the time. What I'm not prepared to do is to pretend that I can do things in States and Territories that I can't. What I have done is to do things that I am in control of, which is to put in an additional $2 billion. That's available right now that we put in in June, that I held a special National Cabinet meeting to deliver. And that was on the basis as well that States and Territories would come and would deal with planning issues because the problem is an issue of supply. That's also something that States and Territories, and local government must be said, have control over. You've seen Victoria and New South Wales foreshadow changes to planning laws to make sure that we can get more appropriate housing and the supply issue dealt with.
KARVELAS: Are we in the midst of a national crisis on housing, Prime Minister?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, we know that the housing market is under enormous pressure and we don't have enough supply. We know that that is the key, that is the key.
KARVELAS: Is it a crisis?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, we don't have enough supply Patricia. We know that there's enormous pressure that people are under and as a result of a failure of, of governments over a period of time, but particularly a failure of planning issues to be dealt with in order to ensure that we get more supply. Now one of the things that Commonwealth can do is to have that direct public housing infrastructure built. What that does is mean there's less people looking for housing in the private rental market. So it takes some pressure off there, as well as of course assists the economy through construction and through job creation. And through that activity. We have a comprehensive plan. But the problem is, as the Greens spokesperson put in writing in a position paper just a couple of months ago, that they quite liked the idea of this being not dealt with because then they want to campaign over it. It's a bizarre position, which says you want people to be kept in poverty so that you can have a political campaign.
KARVELAS: If you're just tuning in, you're listening to ABC RN Breakfast and my guest is the Prime Minister Anthony Albanese. I want to change the topic Prime Minister, your new draft national platform says Labor will take steps to implement all three elements of the Uluru Statement and the Uluru Statement isn't just about the Voice, it's also about treaty and truth. Do you support a treaty Prime Minister?
PRIME MINISTER: Look what is before the Australian people is a referendum, which is about Voice, which is the first part of the Uluru Statement from the Heart.
KARVELAS: That’s right, it’s the first part.
PRIME MINISTER: It's about recognition, it’s about listening and it's about better results. And there's a couple of stories today, one of which is a rather bizarre one, goes back to 1986. Treaty is currently being negotiated in Queensland with legislation.
KARVELAS: Victoria?
PRIME MINISTER: That was passed by the LNP and the Labor Party, by the way, with bipartisan support from Peter Dutton’s LNP. In Victoria and in the Northern Territory, so those processes are occurring.
KARVELAS: Do you support a treaty?
PRIME MINISTER: I look forward to – well the processes are occurring -
KARVELAS: But federally, you've committed to the Uluru Statement -
PRIME MINISTER: No. Yeah, and it's not a treaty. A, is what you’re suggesting.
KARVELAS: There's potentially many treaties, right?
PRIME MINISTER: Yeah, that's occurring. That's like saying, do you support the sun coming up? It's occurring in Victoria in your state, Patricia. It's occurring in Queensland, it's occurring in the Northern Territory. It is occurring and Makarrata, what that means, it’s a Yolngu word, which means a coming together after conflict. People gathering together after conflict and there has been conflict in the history of this country. And it's about reconciliation. And do I support reconciliation? Yes, I do. And I just say to Peter Dutton, he needs to get out of his dirt unit on these issues and go to the red dirt of Arnhem Land, go to the red dirt of Arnhem Land this weekend to Garma, which is the most significant Indigenous cultural event that occurs in this country, it's an annual event, and sit down with Indigenous Australians and engage in constructive dialogue.
KARVELAS: He's not planning to come to Garma, you're saying he should change his plans and go?
PRIME MINISTER: Well of course he should go at a time such as this, when this is an issue that, you can't raise questions in Parliament, have a sort of very strange research exercise going back to things that are four decades old.
KARVELAS: Sure, but Prime Minister I don't mean to be rude, but I will say, I mean that the Uluru Statement, you rightly pointed out very clearly that there are three parts of it. And right now you're focused on the Voice, but in this term of Parliament, if the Voice passes, will you move to trying to negotiate a treaty or treaties?
PRIME MINISTER: No, Patricia, because that that's occurring with the States right now.
KARVELAS: So you’re saying the Commonwealth will never have a role with treaties?
PRIME MINISTER: No, no, Patricia. What I'm saying is that what the no campaign want to do is to focus on everything that's not happening, and nothing that is. What is happening is a vote in the last quarter of this year for a Voice to Parliament. And what that is about is recognising First Nations people in our Constitution and then listening to Indigenous Australians so as to get better results. That's what the focus is on. And what I find, I think, very enlightening, is the fact that the no campaign wants to talk about everything except for the question that will be going to the Australian people, because the question is so clear.
KARVELAS: There is only one question you're absolutely right for a referendum but I suppose the questions around the Government's broader commitments to the other elements in including the Makarrata Commission, which you have funded actually in your Budget, do matter, even if they may be a strategy of the no campaign. Your Government's commitment to those other elements is important.
PRIME MINISTER: I’ll tell you what’s important Patricia -
KARVELAS: Are you still committed to Commonwealths negotiating treaties?
PRIME MINISTER: Patricia, well, where does it say that? It doesn't even say that in the Uluru Statement from the Heart. It doesn't say that, it doesn't speak about the Commonwealth negotiating treaties. It doesn't say that, Patricia. So don't get sucked into -
KARVELAS: I'm not getting sucked in by anything, I just want to know what your position is a what is?
PRIME MINISTER: What our position is, is that there will be a referendum in the last quarter of this year about recognition, about listening, in order to get better outcomes for Indigenous Australians. That's what people will be voting for. And the fact that the no campaign wants to talk about everything but that says that they don't have any confidence in their argument. They say, indeed -
KARVELAS: They want to talk about lots of things, there's no doubt about it. But just to get some clarity. You don't think the Commonwealth has a role to negotiate treaties?
PRIME MINISTER: No, I didn't say that. I said, that's not in the Uluru Statement from the Heart.
KARVELAS: Okay. So do you think the Commonwealth has a role on negotiating treaties?
PRIME MINISTER: Patricia, what the Commonwealth has a role in is the referendum that we'll put to the Australian people in the last quarter of this year. That is what is happening. Treaties are currently being, negotiations are occurring in Victoria, in Queensland and in Northern Territory. Progress occurs, we've come a long way, from 1986, which was prior to the Mabo decision, prior to Native Title, and what we're seeing is a rerun though of some of the negative campaigning that occurred at that time. And I think that's a great pity.
KARVELAS: Are you worried you’re not going to win this Prime Minister? The referendum?
PRIME MINISTER: I want the country to succeed. And I believe that Australians of goodwill will examine the question that's before them in the last quarter of this year, and not be distracted, not be distracted by the Liberal party's and Peter Dutton’s dirt unit, digging up things from four decades ago, trying to talk about things that that actually are not before the Australian people. And I'm very confident that when I talk with sporting organisations, business groups, unions, faith groups, that there is this sense of the opportunity that's there to be a part of taking the country forward, bringing the country together. Just as Mabo and Wik and the Apology advanced reconciliation in this country. This is an opportunity that we have to do just that. And I believe that when people look at the question that's there, look at what the change that is needed. They will vote yes. And we will get this positive change.
KARVELAS: Just finally Prime Minister independent Senator David Pocock joined us before and he says your changes to the PRRT will raise money faster, but won't raise any additional money, and that he will vote it down. Are you prepared to look at this tax again?
PRIME MINISTER: We have our position we've put forward. It's a sensible position. It brings revenue in.
KARVELAS: Do you have the Coalition’s support?
PRIME MINISTER: I’m not the Coalition spokesperson, Patricia.
KARVELAS: No, you're not.
PRIME MINISTER: So that's an interesting one you've tried on there.
KARVELAS: Well, I suppose you will need them is really why I ask. You need them if you can't get the crossbench and the Greens right?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, we have legislation before the Parliament, before the Senate. We don't have a majority in our own right before the Senate. So in order to get any legislation through, you know, whether they choose to be part of an ongoing No-alition saying no to everything, we'll wait and see.
KARVELAS: Prime Minister, I'll see you at Garma.
PRIME MINISTER: See you there.