PATRICIA KARVELAS, HOST: Prime Minister Anthony Albanese joins me this morning from Western Australia. Prime Minister, welcome back to Breakfast.
ANTHONY ALBANESE, PRIME MINISTER: Good morning, Patricia. And can I just jump in and very quickly give a shout out to Kate Jenkins. She has been an extraordinary Sex Discrimination Commissioner. She's made a remarkable achievement in that that role and I wish her well in the future.
KARVELAS: Yes, she certainly has really taken up some very substantial and important issues, particularly for women. Prime Minister, this is a historic win for the government. When did you know you were more than just a chance?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, this was a once in a century achievement when you look at history. You see and feel on the ground, when I was there with Mary Doyle, whether at TAFEs or at local bowling clubs or talking to the local community, I knew that she was a champion. We had a great candidate, suburban mum, humble, hard working, someone who really showed her compassion. She's someone who isn't a political professional. She's someone whose warmth and genuineness I think really showed through to the whole of Australia on Saturday night with her acceptance speech. And so I knew we had a great candidate. And I know that the issues that we were focused on in Aston of making a practical difference to people's lives through issues like fee-free TAFE were resonating. But you look at history and you know that it's never happened in 100 years. So we were just always doing our best. And as I said, I think on Saturday at the polling booth where I was, I said, 'We're giving it a crack'. And we did, and I'm very pleased and humbled by the outcome.
KARVELAS: Prime Minister, you gave it more than a crack. You won a seat that was safe Liberal territory at a time you wouldn't expect it after so many interest rate rises and a general feeling in the community that, you know, things are kind of tough at the moment.
PRIME MINISTER: Well they are tough.
KARVELAS: They are, but let me go to this point, you're clearly a very popular Prime Minister right now. How are you going to use that political capital that you have, substantial political capital, for big policy reform? Today, for instance, there's a big report out from the Grattan Institute on superannuation reform, does it embolden you to go a little further, Prime Minister?
PRIME MINISTER: We will continue to do what we have done in our first 11 months, which is to be a government focused on delivering on our commitments, an adult government that works issues through methodically, that tells Australians what we're going to do and then sets about doing it. So just last week, we had two big pieces of legislation. The National Reconstruction Fund is about manufacturing jobs in our outer suburban areas and in our regions. That was really important and getting that in place will make an enormous difference. We also had, of course, our Safeguards Mechanism, it's the how for how we deliver the 43 per cent reduction in emissions by 2030 and move to net zero by 2050. That's delivering on our commitments. Our cheaper childcare plan comes in on July 1. So we'll continue to deal with immediate challenges that we have. There have been challenges because of global inflation that's happened with supply chain issues with the Russian invasion of Ukraine.
KARVELAS: No doubt all that's true. But in terms of emboldening you to think, 'Well, we are at a high water mark', potentially it could go higher, I don't know, but right now, it's quite high. That means that you have a political capital that governments rarely have, Prime Minister. How do you use it?
PRIME MINISTER: No, it means that we continue to work in a methodical way through our plan for a better future that we took to the election. It means that we keep our feet on the ground. This was a significant victory for the Labor Party and for Mary Doyle in particular. But we don't get carried away with this. We'll continue to work each and every day on the practical programs that we have. We want to deliver our Housing Australia Future Fund. There's a report out today about the shortfall that is coming in housing supply. Now what that will do is to double the amount of new social housing dwellings that are added to the stock each year. That's really important reform. It's been resisted by the Liberals, the Nationals, the Greens political party at the moment. We will continue to argue the case. And we have an economy, as well, that has a trillion dollars of debt we inherited. We know that that presents a challenge. So we'll continue to be responsible in the way that we deal with the economic challenges ahead as well.
KARVELAS: Now, obviously, you're framing a Budget right now, Prime Minister, and we know a lot of households are struggling, which you have acknowledged. But they didn't blame you for it in the seat of Aston. You had a swing to your Government, which is why you've won this seat. How long does that last? And how does it frame your thinking about this Budget? Will you be delivering more cost of living relief? Because people are clearly desperate for it.
PRIME MINISTER: Well people know that there's a huge gap between reality and what the Liberal Party's rhetoric has been over the past 10 months. They know that we're doing our best to provide cost of living relief. They're aware of the Russian invasion of Ukraine. They're aware of what's happened in the global economy, that we've got double digit inflation in places in Europe and North America over the recent period. So that's why they're also aware that we've put forward practical plans. They know that when they go to the local pharmacy that the costs of pharmaceuticals have gone from $42.50 down to $30.
KARVELAS: That's what you have already done. Do you need to do more?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, we have $1.5 billion of energy price relief that the Parliament passed in December. That will be included in our Budget in May. And we'll always look to do more. But we'll look to do more in a responsible way. Because if you just have a cash splash, which is what happened in the Coalition's last Budget in May, that actually added to some of the inflationary pressure that was there in the economy. Economists have said that, the RBA has been cognisant of that as well. So we need to be responsible in the way that we deal with that, otherwise you end up being quite counterproductive. You say you're helping on cost of living issues, but you end up adding to the cost of living because interest rates go up if inflation goes up, which we clearly need to get under control. So we'll be very targeted in measures that we're examining, as we have been up to this point, and we will continue to be. And a Labor Government will always focus on the most vulnerable and we'll always do what we can to assist people.
KARVELAS: Well in terms of reforms that you might be looking at, exporters are experiencing booming gas profits, Prime Minister. Do you support a higher Petroleum Resource Rent Tax? Is that the sort of idea that has merit?
PRIME MINISTER: Well the Morrison Government initiated a review of the PRRT. We're receiving that at some time between now and the Budget. What we'll do is continue to work with industry in a constructive way as we frame a Budget in May.
KARVELAS: Tomorrow the Reserve Bank will decide whether to hold or increase rates. The economy seems to be slowing down but there are still pressures, of course. How do you expect this to go? I mean, can Australian families really face another interest rate rise tomorrow, Prime Minister?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, of course, I don't speculate on interest rate decisions made by the independent Reserve Bank.
KARVELAS: But on that question, can they face another rise?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, that's an issue that the Reserve Bank will make very much independent of government. Regardless of what happens tomorrow, we get that Australians are struggling with the cost of living pressures. The Reserve Bank will take all of these issues into account. We know from the figures that came out last week, though, but there were early signs that inflation has passed its peak, which is what was predicted by the RBA and by the Treasury when we brought down our Budget in October. And I certainly hope that that's the case. That's why in six weeks time, what we're going to do, and we say this publicly as well so that the Reserve Bank know what the government's views of these issues are, that we will prioritise responsible investments that don't add to inflation. That's why measures like fee-free TAFE, which cost money to the Budget, obviously it's a substantial investment, but they're adding to supply, they're dealing with some of the supply chain issues of labour shortages which are adding to costs. So if you target your investment in the right way then you can have a win win. Similarly with childcare, that boosts productivity, it boosts workforce participation, it's a positive. Yes, it's a cost, our largest on budget cost of any measure that we took to the election. It was in my first Budget Reply. We campaigned for it. We argued for it .And on July 1 we deliver it.
KARVELAS: Prime Minister I've got some really sad and breaking news for our listeners and perhaps, well certainly for you, but I'm not sure if you've been made aware of this yet. But senior Yolngu lore man and Gumatj clan leader Yunupingu has died aged 74 after a long illness. He is one of the most senior Indigenous elders and advocates of the Voice and certainly someone I know who you know. So this is breaking news. I know this will absolutely devastate the Aboriginal community and beyond. Prime Minister, I wonder what you make of this horrible news before even a referendum is held?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, this is very sad news. Yunupingu is one of the greatest of Australians. A former Australian of the Year, someone who played an absolutely central role in the Uluru Statement from the Heart. Someone who is an extraordinary leader of his people, and someone who was widely respected right across Indigenous and non-Indigenous Australia. He was a remarkable individual and his leadership was extraordinary. His strength for Yolngu people over generations means that he will be very sadly mourned. I spoke to him on the day in which we announced what the referendum question would be on the Thursday afternoon. He was surrounded then by his close family members and it was a great honour for me to speak to him at that time. When I spoke at Garma, on his country, he gave me a yidaki that I keep at the front of the Lodge, the home of the Prime Minister in Canberra. A yidaki is known commonly as a didgeridoo, of course, most of your listeners would would regard it as that. He was just an extraordinary, extraordinary leader and it's a great loss. And I pay my respect to all of his family, but indeed, for Indigenous Australians in particular today will be a very difficult day.
KARVELAS: It certainly will. He's a towering figure, the most senior I would argue, leader in Aboriginal politics of our generation.
PRIME MINISTER: Absolutely. He stands above. When there are such extraordinary indigenous leadership, he showed the way. And he spoke about Uluru as lighting the fire, and he spoke to me about that on that Thursday. He was very pleased when I spoke to him.
KARVELAS: What did he say to you when you spoke to him in your last conversation in his last days?
PRIME MINISTER: He said I had spoken truth, which was very important for him. He had said to me at Garma, because he'd been let down so many times. He had met every prime minister since Billy McMahon. So for a long period of time, he was a confidant and a leader who engaged with the prime ministers of Australia and he said to me at Garma, 'Are you serious?' when I said we will hold a referendum. Of course, it was promised that there would be advance on the Uluru Statement in 2019, both parties went to the election. In 2007, John Howard went to an election talking about recognition. And part of my speech at Garma was, of course, 'If not now, when?' When are we going to do this and get this done? And I said to him, I was serious, we would do it. And the last conversation I had with him was very much him saying that I had spoken truth and he was very pleased. He was obviously aware of his state of health, he at that stage was in a difficult health condition and he was very, very pleased. It warmed him that Australians were going to have a say and he was very confident that Australians would fulfil what is his ambition, along with so many other Indigenous Australians, to be recognised in our nation's constitution.
KARVELAS: Prime Minister, how sad is it that he'll never live, he won't live to see the referendum? I mean, elders dying and the most significant figure in Aboriginal politics never seeing that day.
PRIME MINISTER: The spirit of Yunupingu is still with us.
KARVELAS: Prime Minister on the Voice, I've heard Labor people suggest the result in Aston and could be good for the referendum. People have told me that on your side of politics. But the Voice barely registered during that by-election. Do you see it as linked?
PRIME MINISTER: People will draw a whole lot of analysis about Aston. But certainly I think that Aston was, in part, a vote for positive politics over the politics of negativity. It was a vote for solutions, which might not be perfect, but trying to get them rather than just sit sitting in the corner and saying no. It was a vote for those who are participants rather than observers. And I think that a very telling comment of Peter Dutton on Saturday night after the victory speech of Mary Doyle that was so extraordinary, was him saying that his task was to keep the Coalition together. That said to me that this was a focus on their internals. I'm focused on the Australian people. And one of the things we did on Aston was focus on the Australian people and I believe firmly that a Yes vote will be good in showing respect for Indigenous Australians, but it will be good for non-Indigenous Australians by us coming to terms with who we are and the fullness and richness of our history.
KARVELAS: Prime Minister, just a final question on the Voice before I let you go. You've been dismissive of questions like whether the Voice will consult on RBA decisions or on the Safeguards Mechanism. But the Voice will be able to do that, it's quite clear. Why have you said they won't? Because they will be able to.
PRIME MINISTER: The question's designed to, and people are aware, I think that the opposition in terms of genuine issues going forward, of course, people should have detail and the detail of the principles are out there. And the detail is also out there in the second reading speech and the explanatory memorandum that the Attorney-General moved in the Parliament, and part of that speech which has, of course, a legal framework. A second reading speech is about issues that specifically impact on Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people. So it is very difficult to argue that decisions of the RBA impact particularly, disproportionately on Indigenous Australians.
KARVELAS: But they could provide the advice on it.
PRIME MINISTER: Patricia, this is about two things. This is about recognition in our Constitution and it's about consultation on matters that affect Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people. We have put the wording out there. There's a 10 year life expectancy gap. There are gaps in health, and housing, and education, and infant mortality. They have the worst incarceration rates per capita of any peoples in the world. That is what the focus of the Voice will be. And there'll be a whole lot of issues raised.
KARVELAS: It can raise the other issues, though. It can, right? It's just not the focus.
PRIME MINISTER: There are a whole lot of issues that can be raised that are designed to create uncertainty. Uncertainty out there and designed to assist the No case. And a couple of times I've called that out for what it is. And people who look at the role that has been played by the Coalition at the moment, I mean Julian Leeser was a part of a committee that came up with the words of Parliament and including executive government way back in 2014, almost a decade ago. This is a clear proposition for the Australian people and they are the two things it's about - recognition and consultation. No veto right, no additional power, the idea that you're going to have the Reserve Bank board sitting around in a corner, which is independent, they don't even talk to me about interest rates, they don't talk to the Prime Minister of Australia, Patricia, they don't talk to you. So the idea that they're going to be sitting down in a board meeting tomorrow and and having a meeting with the Voice is quite frankly just not the case.
KARVELAS: Prime Minister, just a final question, you will be offering Yunupingu a state funeral?
PRIME MINISTER: You've just given me the news, Patricia. You've just given me the news. Have some respect. I will talk with the family because that is absolutely what is appropriate and I haven't even had the opportunity to talk to the family. You've just given me that news.
KARVELAS: Fair enough. Prime Minister thanks for your time.
PRIME MINISTER: Thank you.