DAVE MARCHESE, HOST: Anthony Albanese, welcome back to Hack.
ANTHONY ALBANESE, PRIME MINISTER: Good afternoon. Good to be with you.
MARCHESE: Prime Minister, a referendum has never succeeded in Australia without bipartisan support. You've said yourself you've wanted bipartisanship to give it a better chance. How are you going to get this across the line if you've got the Opposition Leader, the Nationals, people on all sides of politics out there actively campaigning against it?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, the decision today by Peter Dutton is very disappointing. But it shouldn't come as a surprise given his negative comments at every opportunity that he's had since he's been Opposition Leader, and his history of not even being prepared to sit in the Parliament when the Apology was given to Stolen Generations. So, it is disappointing. But the fact is that I believe that Australians of goodwill will vote 'Yes' sometime between October and December this year. Australians, every time they attend an event, whether it's a sporting event, or a church, or local community event and indeed, even the Parliament, every day we acknowledge the traditional owners of the land on which we live and we pay respects. And recognition in our nation's Constitution is unfinished business. It's not a radical concept. It is simply acknowledging the great privilege that we have of sharing this continent with the oldest continuous culture on earth.
MARCHESE: So, Prime Minister, Peter Dutton has said that he supports a legislated Voice but not one enshrined in the Constitution. And he also says he supports symbolic recognition of First Nations people in the Constitution. Is that what he's been asking for in the meetings you've been having with him? Because you've had a few meetings with Peter Dutton.
PRIME MINISTER: I've met with Peter Dutton in good faith on seven occasions. The Coalition said that they supported legislation, that they support constitutional recognition at various times. They've just come out of government less than a year ago where they held office for nine years and Peter Dutton was a senior Cabinet Minister during that period.
MARCHESE: But Prime Minister, I'm wondering, is it worth changing the wording of the question if it means getting the Liberal Party over the line?
PRIME MINISTER: There's no indication of that. I gave a speech at Garma last July and I put forward draft constitutional words, and the process concluded the first part of it, now there's a committee looking at the legislation that was introduced last Thursday. Now, over that long period of some eight months, the Coalition, no Liberal or National Party leaders, came forward with any alternatives or any suggestions in spite of the fact that I made it very clear it was just draft wording. But importantly, this actually isn't about the politicians, this is about your listeners. Every Australian will have one vote. And today when Peter Dutton was asked who he consulted with in the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander community, he spoke about places that he visited rather than people that he'd actually consulted with. Now, when I stood up in the in the Blue Room of Parliament House and put forward the wording a couple of weeks ago that we put in the legislation I was with, Noel Pearson of course supported it, he couldn't make the meeting, but Ken Wyatt, the former Aboriginal Affairs Minister from the Morrison Government, with Linda Burney and Pat Dodson, and Marcia Langton and Thomas Mayo.
MARCHESE: A lot of First Nations leaders were with you.
PRIME MINISTER: And we consulted.
MARCHESE: That's for sure. And I mean, you know, Peter Dutton is saying he's consulted with communities. Prime Minister, we've got a text message here from a listener who probably represents a big number of people who say, ‘I'll vote 'Yes' for Aboriginal recognition in the Constitution, I'll vote 'No' to a Voice in Parliament’. What does Jacinta Price and Warren Mundine and a lot of other Aboriginal people think about this, they say 'No'. There are people out there who say they would vote 'Yes' for recognition if the referendum was splits in two. Would you consider splitting it in two?
PRIME MINISTER: No, because we've actually consulted with Indigenous Australians. This hasn't come from a couple of people sitting around politicians coming up with an idea. What people need to know is the history of this. There was a constitutional convention for First Nations people held, there were literally fed into that process of 1,200 people invited to Uluru, hundreds of people signing the Uluru Statement from the Heart, that came up with the fact that they wanted constitutional recognition and they wanted it through a Voice. And all a Voice is a body that won't have the power of veto, it won't be a funding body, but a body that says where policies are going to impact on Aboriginal Torres Strait Islander people they should be consulted. This is about good manners going forward. And yes, there is not a unanimous view in the indigenous community but there's no reason why that should be the case more than there’s unanimous views about issues in any section of society.
MARCHESE: So, what if it fails, Prime Minister?
PRIME MINISTER: I will be, along with the Indigenous leadership, a vast majority of this country, along with business organisations, the trade union movement, faith organisations, non-government organisations, everyone from the Salvation Army to ACOSS, sporting organisations, campaigning very strongly to do this. Because if not now, when? When are we going to recognise Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people in our Constitution?
MARCHESE: How are you going to win over those who are against this proposal, though? Because they're not all Liberal and Nationals voters, right. There are, like you said before, some within First Nations communities who are against this proposal, they don't think it goes far enough or there's been enough consultation, how will you win over those people?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, this constitutional consultation has been going on for decades now. Going back to the last century, literally, there was discussion about constitutional recognition of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people. Now, it is difficult to get change, we'll continue to argue the case and explain why it's important and to the view that says, ‘We support recognition but we don't support the Voice’. I'd asked people to think about this - that we need to listen to what overwhelmingly Indigenous people themselves have come forward with. Now, it's not unanimous, just the same as if you had any other group, not everyone who lives in my electorate vote for me or agrees with my position. Not everyone who follows a particular football team votes Labor or Liberal, that's the nature of it and you have to respect the fact that people come to different views. But overwhelmingly, Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people are saying we will get better results when we're consulted. And what we know from experience is that that's the case. Programs like Indigenous Rangers, justice reinvestment, community health programs, all are the most effective programs because Indigenous people have had that involvement and you get better solutions when you work with people.
MARCHESE: And we will be speaking about that in the months ahead for sure. Prime Minister, on another issue young Australians are struggling right now, you'd be aware of this. So many can't afford a roof over their heads, they're lining up for free food. What's your Government doing to help young Australians right now?
PRIME MINISTER: It's really tough and we're aware that inflation is having a real impact. One of the things that we are doing is in the housing area. We have legislation before the parliament to create a Housing Australia Future Fund.
MARCHESE: That's for houses years away, Prime Minister. And people can't afford their rent now. They're struggling now and they're telling us they can't get by and they need direct support now. What are you going to do about it?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, the support that we’re providing just last week we put in a submission to the Fair Work Commission for a wage increase for people who are on the minimum wage. We did that last year and that led to an increase, you might remember that was an issue during the election campaign. So, protecting people's living standards is about wages, it's about secure work, but it's also about helping where you can. So, cheaper pharmaceuticals came in on January 1, fee-free TAFE.
MARCHESE: Prime Minister, they are saying it's not enough, they're telling us every day it’s not enough.
PRIME MINISTER: I'm aware of that, but they also would be aware that you can't click your fingers and change the whole economy and undo a decade of inaction overnight. So, fee-free TAFE, I've spoken to young Australians at TAFE’s right around the country, some 180,000 of them, who for them that's making enormous difference. Because it's meaning that they are able to get into employment and with hope of a secure work in the future.
MARCHESE: We are going to have to leave it there, Prime Minister. But Anthony Albanese, thank you very much for making the time to come on Hack. We're also still waiting on that DJ set, by the way. Remember, before the election you promised that?
PRIME MINISTER: Indeed, I'd be very happy to do that. It was it was an attendance on Hack. Indeed, years ago that led to a hosting of Rage, which was one ticked off the bucket list way back about 10 years ago. I’d be very happy to come in.
MARCHESE: We’ll give you a bit of time to put your playlist together. Prime Minister, thanks for coming on Hack.
PRIME MINISTER: I’m constantly putting together playlists. That won't be a problem.
MARCHESE: Thank you, Anthony Albanese. Thanks for joining us.