STEVE CANNANE, HOST: Prime Minister, thanks so much for talking to the ABC.
ANTHONY ALBANESE, PRIME MINISTER: Good to be with you, Steve.
CANNANE: A start date for the Free Trade Agreement has been agreed upon between the UK and Australia. When will that be and what will be the immediate benefits for Australia?
PRIME MINISTER: Well it will be in place by by May 31. It's completed its parliamentary processes here. And of course, we completed our processes at the end of last year. What it will mean put simply is more access to the market here for our goods and services. So for beef, for our sheep products, for our seafood, for our other products it will mean much greater access to the British market. But it will also have changes to the labour market, increased periods in which Australians can work here and vice versa and increased ages as well. So lifting the age, for example, for people to come down to Australia up to 35, and allowing them to stay for three years. And that will provide for better career opportunities than just casual work. If you can go into a workplace for three years there are obvious benefits where people come get that experience here, in the British economy, and then I hope go back to Australia and make a greater contribution as a result of that experience.
CANNANE: You met with the King this week. What was that meeting like?
PRIME MINISTER: It was very warm and engaging. The King has very fond memories of his time schooling in Australia and he of course has been a regular visitor. Protocol requires that you can't talk about the detail of the meeting, but it was very warm and informative and insightful. King Charles is very interested in what's happening in Australia and it was a real opportunity for us to engage on issues which were dealing with, but also of course, to reiterate my invitation to him to visit Australia. He would be a welcome visitor along with other members of the royal family when time can be arranged.
CANNANE: His mother the Queen was famously very engaged with the affairs of state so much so that one time she suggested to Winston Churchill that he may want to look at a certain diplomatic cable that have been sent. I'm wondering if you got the sense that he is that engaged and that curious and that knowledgeable about the affairs of state in Australia?
PRIME MINISTER: Oh, he certainly is. He follows issues that we're dealing with in our economy. He has a long record of interest in issues such as climate change, on issues relating to Australia's Indigenous people, on issues across the full range, particularly of the environment and that remains the case. And it was an opportunity for him to ask questions as well. We both have a common interest in the urban economy, as well as urban environment and sustainability. There's the Prince's Trust in Australia which is building some quite innovative housing in Glebe in Sydney, but of course, that has occurred in other areas as well. He's interested in getting that social mix, getting environmentally sustainable design, and in the nature of our cities. And I think he will continue to have that engagement as the King.
CANNANE: You've met Charles twice as King, what's your impression of what kind of King of Australia he will be?
PRIME MINISTER: He'll be someone who's interested in us, derives from his experience, he remembers that very fondly, he's experience. And he's someone who will be interested in issues as well. Of course, it is up to King Charles what public commentary he makes but there's no doubt that he'll be following day to day issues.
CANNANE: What are you looking forward to about the coronation on Saturday?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, it's a moment in history, isn't it? In our lifetime, this is the first time there's been a transition of power. After his mother, Her Majesty, Queen Elizabeth served for 70 years, a remarkable period of service and diligence and duty, that Queen Elizabeth showed over such a long period of time. And Saturday will be the formal recognition of the fact that we have a new head of state under our system. So it will be a historic moment and I regard it as a great privilege for myself, as the Prime Minister of Australia, along with the Governor General, and other Australians to be present there at Westminster Abbey when it occurs.
CANNANE: And as a lifelong Republican there's no sense of awkwardness about being a part of all of this?
PRIME MINISTER: I haven't changed my position on that and I've made that very clear. I want to see an Australian as Australia's head of state. That doesn't mean that you can not have respect for the institution, which is the system of government that we have. And I believe, as the Australian Prime Minister, I have a particular responsibility to represent the nation in a way that respects the constitutional arrangements, which are there.
nd I certainly will undertake that.
CANNANE: And you're going to take the oath of allegiance to the King on Saturday. Why would a lifelong Republican do that?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, the same reason why we do it when we're sworn or affirmed into Parliament.
CANNANE: Except you have to do it then, this is voluntary. I mean, for example, the Archbishop of Canterbury is going to ask the congregation and I'll quote, 'all who desire' to take the oath of allegiance. Sounds like you've got an out there?
PRIME MINISTER: I think as the Australian Prime Minister, people expect me to not come to the King's Coronation in order to create a controversy. And I'll follow protocol, just as I followed protocol with Her Majesty's death last year - and I think Australians respected that. Australians had a great deal of affection for Her Majesty. We had, according to the operation that was set out, Operation London Bridge, well in advance. We had the day of mourning, we had the service in the Great Hall, we had our attendance here, we even had down to what time we would arrive in London and when we would leave - it had all been set out well in advance. And I think there is something to be said for making sure that you do follow protocol. As I said, it doesn't shy away from the fact that I want to see an Australian as Australia's head of state. I'm a lifelong Republican who voted Yes, way back in the last century when that was held. And I haven't changed my position on that. But we have to respect the institutions which are there, which Australians have put in place.
CANNANE: A lot of Australians may find this particular protocol a bit weird and a bit irrational because you'll be taking an oath of allegiance not just to the King, but his heirs and successors. That includes Prince Andrew, that includes people who haven't even been born yet whose character you couldn't possibly evaluate. That must strike you as a particularly irrational?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, if people aren't born, it's unlikely I'll be here when they become the the Monarch and Australia's constitutional arrangements, of course, are up to Australia in the future to determine. And King Charles is very much on the record as saying that he respects the rights of nation states who are part of the Commonwealth to determine their own constitutional arrangements. And as a Republican, I think at some stage that will change when Australia is ready for that. But it's not up to me as Prime Minister to impose my position on Australia, that's a matter for the Australian people. And at some stage in the future, if there is another vote, then Australians will get to determine that.
CANNANE: I wanted to ask you about Australia's commitment to Ukraine. I could tell that you were deeply moved when you went to Bucha last year. Are you confident that since that visit, that you've done all you can as Prime Minister to help Ukraine drive Russian troops out of their country?
PRIME MINISTER: Absolutely, I am. We are the largest non-NATO contributor, Australia stands with Ukraine. It's a bipartisan commitment. I paid tribute to the initial work that was done by the former government that has then been continued by us. I travelled to Ukraine as a symbol, if you'd like, a personification of our commitment there in Kyiv, where I was very honoured to meet President Zelenskyy. And since then, I've had discussions with President Zelenskyy as well, we have made a number of increased contributions both in terms of equipment that was requested, but also in terms of personnel. There is very important work being undertaken not far from here with the oversight by the United Kingdom of training Ukrainian troops for battle and Australia is playing an important role in that as well.
CANNANE: But what about the Hawkei they're requesting. These are light protector mobility vehicles. Why hasn't your government delivered those vehicles?'
PRIME MINISTER: Well, what we've done is provided substantial number of Bushmasters. We've provided a range of equipment, some of which we had made public, some of which we have not for security reasons. There's a war going on there. This isn't a PR exercise.
CANNANE: They wouldn't be asking for them if they had got them.
PRIME MINISTER: This is an exercise in making sure that we provide what we have available. And in the Bushmasters case, we're actually producing, manufacturing Bushmasters in order to send them to Ukraine.
CANNANE: But if you look at a country like Britain, for example, they've been sending missiles, armoured vehicles, hundreds of thousands of rounds of artillery, tanks, air defence systems, couldn't Australia do better?
PRIME MINISTER: We are providing substantial support for Ukraine, including some of what you have just suggested. In addition to providing equipment, we are also providing some cyber support and other non military support, as well indirectly to Ukraine. We'll continue to work with the government of Ukraine. There's the terrific ambassador who is present in Canberra, we continue to engage with him.
CANNANE: He's asking for Hawkei.
PRIME MINISTER: Well, we continue to provide what we have available at the time. And I think our our position can't be questioned when we are the largest non NATO contributor. In addition to that we have to provide substantial aid, which includes the involvement of some of our Australian Defence Force in our own region including, we've provided recently substantial support in places like Vanuatu that had to go through not one, but but two cyclones that had a significant impact. So we're doing, I think, a substantial contribution. And in recognition of that, of course, I've been invited to the NATO summit that will be held in Lithuania in July, and along with the AP Four: Australia, New Zealand, South Korea and Japan.
CANNANE: Julian Assange has been held in prison here in London for over five years now. Should his family and his friends and his supporters hold any optimism that this could be the year when the US finally drops those extradition proceedings against him?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, my position is that enough is enough. Julian Assange has been incarcerated either in Belmarsh or, of course he himself made the decision, to go into the Ecuador embassy, but that meant that he's freedom of movement hasn't been there for a long period of time now. And I continue to say in private what I said publicly as Labor leader, and what I've said as Prime Minister: that enough is enough, this needs to be brought to a conclusion, it needs to be worked through. Including, we're working through diplomatic channels, but we're making very clear what our position is on Mr. Assange's case.
CANNANE: President Biden, who you describe as a friend will be in Australia this month for the Quad, will you be raising it again with him?
PRIME MINISTER: The way that diplomacy works, Steve, is probably not to forecast the discussions that you will have, or have had with leaders of other nations. I'm not someone who will ever release a text message from another leader. I'll engage diplomatically in order to achieve an outcome. And I know it's frustrating, I share the frustration. I can't do more than make very clear what my position is and the US administration is certainly very aware of what the Australian Government's position is.
CANNANE: If you don't raise it others are likely to create some kind of noise about it when President Biden goes to Australia. 48 Federal MPs, and Senators, including 13 from your own party room have signed off on a letter calling on the US to drop the extradition. Do you think the President understands how much this issue means to many Australians?
PRIME MINISTER: I'm sure that he is very aware of this issue and of the Australian Government's position. We have made our position very clear to the US Administration.
CANNANE: Just over a year ago, a coalition of 21 free speech and human rights organisations signed a letter calling on the US to drop the charges against Assange saying the prosecution of Assange undermines the country's ability to defend journalists against repression by authoritarian and other rights abusing regimes abroad. Now, this was before the war in Ukraine, this was before Russia charged an American journalist with espionage. Do you think the US needs to look at the Assange case in this context? What message it sends to authoritarian regimes?
PRIME MINISTER: I think that the Assange case needs to be looked at in terms of what occurred, what the allegations are, and whether the time that has effectively served already, is in excess of what would be reasonable if it were proved that this had occurred. Mr. Assange has been charged with a range of offences relating to the revelations of confidential material and we need to be clear about some of the concerns which are there about that. Sometimes, in terms of the release of information, if it leads to consequences for people who are engaged in in activity - in this case, US forces - then that quite understandably raises issues just as it would for Australia. But when Australians look at the circumstances, look at the fact the person who released the information is walking freely now having served some time in incarceration, but is now released for a long period of time, then they'll see that there's a disconnect there. And that's why I don't get into the argument of whether what Julian Assange did was right or wrong, because I have some issues with what he did. But I just say that enough is enough. There is nothing to be served by his ongoing incarceration. And I am concerned about Mr. Assange's mental health. There was a court decision here in the United Kingdom that was in overturned on appeal that went to Mr. Assange's health as well and I am concerned for him.
CANNANE: Are you concerned about the values and the principles at play here, too, because we're hearing a lot from Western leaders, and rightfully so about democratic values in the wake of what is going on in Russia and Ukraine and China? Shouldn't the West also be making the case around Assange, not just on issues around enough is enough, but that there are principles here and freedom of expression is something that we value in western democracies? And if that means somebody publishes material that makes governments uncomfortable, governments sometimes have to live with that.
PRIME MINISTER: We do value freedom of expression. But we also have, in today's uncertain world, legitimate concerns about national security. I'm not going to sit here as someone who chairs our National Security Committee, and say, 'it's fine if you publish all of the details about our National Security Committee deliberations'. Because if you did that Australian lives would be put in danger. There are real consequences for that. I'm a big supporter of freedom of the press, but with that also comes a responsibility to take into account the consequences of whether information, which is not available to the public, what the consequences would be if we had just a free for all. There is a reason why Cabinet deliberations stay private for a couple of decades. There's a reason why it's actually an offence to leak Cabinet material, just like the National Security Committee deliberations that we hold as Australia are kept private.
CANNANE: When you became Prime Minister, you promised a country when no one is held back and no one is left behind. The current rate of Jobseeker and other welfare payments have people living below the poverty line. Does that mean you're going to increase the rate of Jobseeker at next week's Budget?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, you'll see, not many sleeps to go now, Steve. But I'm not announcing our Budget here in London. Tuesday night, 7:30 will be when the Treasurer announces our Budget deliberations. But certainly I've always said we would do what we could, when we could. And a Labor Government will always strive to look after people and to not leave people behind. But as well, the second half of that is to not hold people back either. We want to aspire to a better life for people. That means giving people employment opportunities. People are under enormous, enormous financial pressure with cost of living. We're dealing with global inflation arising out of the Russian invasion of Ukraine, but as well, the issues that supply chains arising from the pandemic and the shutdown of those systems that occurred. And so I understand that people are under pressure and I know what it's like to live on a very limited financial circumstance and to do it to do it tough.
CANNANE: Your mum famously was on a pension when you were growing up. I wonder, in a bigger picture sense not related to the budget, do you think it's harder for Australians now living on welfare than it was in your day and has that had an impact on equality of opportunity in Australia?
PRIME MINISTER: I think it was always pretty tough. My mum lived on an invalid pension -
CANNANE: It seems like it's tougher now.
PRIME MINISTER: Well, I think it was always tough. And I think that it certainly is tough at the moment. One of the things that we're looking at as well, in a little bit longer term beyond the budget, is how we fix up employment services. Why is it that we have an unemployment rate of 3.5 per cent but we have people who have been long term unemployed? And it's very difficult for them to have got out of that cycle of poverty. So I want to give consideration to that as well.
CANNANE: And is that ultimately how you want your government to be judged, by no one being held back, no one being left behind, by equality of opportunity, social mobility, improving those areas?
PRIME MINISTER: It's one of the big things that we ran on in the 2022 election. And it's something that I've held dear for a long period of time - that's my values. I do want to look after people and we will have cost of living measures in the budget. But we'll also have it in a way that is responsible. If you just look at what happened prior to the election with a whole lot of additional expenditure coming in to the system, including the $19 billion of JobKeeper payments going to companies that were actually increasing their profits - not only just surviving, but actually doing better than they were before the pandemic. That's one of the factors that has fed into inflation. So inflation has a far greater impact on the poor than it does on the wealthy. You know, I'm on the salary I'm on - inflation isn't going to impact on on my day to day purchases. But for people on low incomes, it certainly does. And that's why you have to, when you look at the bigger picture, make sure that everything we do in the budget isn't putting increased pressure on inflation, because that would be counterproductive. So we're trying to get that balance right. People will see next Tuesday's budget, and will make their own judgement, but one of the things that I want my government to be characterised by is dealing with the immediate pressures, but also always looking to the medium and longer term. So in the case of people on limited means and providing a cost of living support, we need to do that. But we also need to do it where possible in a way that builds productivity, that lifts people up, medium and long term. Our childcare changes that come in on July 1 are perhaps the best example of something that will be a cost, but it also will enable women to work longer in the workforce, so therefore improving workforce participation, improved productivity, whilst helping out the family budget. Now on aged care increases, increasing the wages of people in the aged care sector at a cost of some $11 billion to the budget is a substantial cost. It's something, though, that we said that aged care workers deserved more than our thanks, they deserved a wage increase - and we did that. And that will be a major element in the budget. We said that we supported people on the minimum wage not getting left behind. The dollar increase, or $1.05 that went into the system in the last year is one that during the campaign I was asked whether I would welcome it and I said absolutely. And absolutely I have. It didn't damage the economy, it helped look after people. So it's getting that balance right. And that is something you'll see. I hope we have got it right next Tuesday, I'm certainly very proud of the Budget that we've put together.
CANNANE: Prime Minister, thanks so much for talking to us.
PRIME MINISTER: Thanks very much.