DAVID SPEERS, HOST: Prime Minister, thanks so much for giving us some time here in Washington.
ANTHONY ALBANESE, PRIME MINISTER: Wonderful to be here.
SPEERS: You've spent a fair bit of time over the last few days with President Biden, and it seems, pretty much every time he's appeared alongside you, he said something about China, expressing concerns about China or the Indo Pacific, even warning you about trusting China. Why do you think that is?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, what we have is, in President Biden's own words yesterday, we want competition, but without conflict. So the strategic competition in our region between the United States and China, the two great powers in global politics, is just a factor. It's a factor in our region, and it's something that is some of the backdrop, if you like, to all the relationships which are there.
SPEERS: It's clearly a concern for President Biden. I mean, do you trust China?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, what we need to acknowledge is that we have different political systems and different values. But what I say is that we'll cooperate where we can, we will disagree where we must, and we'll engage in our national interests, and that's something that President Biden also supports. My concern with the relationship between the United States and China is that there has been good engagement at the diplomatic level, at a senior ministerial level equivalent, in Australian terms, but military-to-military, there's still a lack of engagement. We need to build in guardrails, as I spoke at the Shangri-La Dialogue in June in Singapore.
SPEERS: And so do you see Australia playing a role in helping that dialogue?
PRIME MINISTER: I think both China and the United States probably see Australia as playing a role. We're a middle power -
SPEERS: So an in-between?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, we're a middle power, where clearly our allies is very clear. We have an alliance with the United States, we're a Strategic Partner with the United States, but we're also a player in the region. We'll host ASEAN leaders in March next year, and I think that Australia's word is very important in the world. We've participated in, as a G20 Member, but we also participate in forums like the G7 and NATO.
SPEERS: But I'm just interested in what you said there, do you see Australia as a go-between the two big powers?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, not so much a 'go-between' because it's clear where we stand as a democratic nation. But we are a nation that does engage in our own interests. We're a sovereign country. But the relationship with China is obviously important for Australia, they're our major trading partner, something like one in four of our export dollars, comes from China. But the United States, of course, is our largest two way investment partner. So our economic relationships are important and historically, we have had a relationship with China, I will visit of course next month -
SPEERS: What do you want to achieve with that visit?
PRIME MINISTER: Just opening up that engagement. Very clearly, it's in Australia's interest to engage with China as our major source of our trade. We've seen major breakthroughs when it comes to removing some of the impediments that have been there for trade. The wine decision alone will be worth around about $1.2 billion to Australia, barley was worth $900 million to Australia, we've had decisions on timber, on hay, and on other products -
SPEERS: So this is all good news?
PRIME MINISTER: There's more to do -
SPEERS: This is the, where you can cooperate, as you say, but as you say, you also want to be able to disagree where you must. Where do you disagree?
PRIME MINISTER: We disagree on the basis of our political systems, on issues like human rights, on issues such as access to the South China Sea, the East China Sea, the Taiwan Straits, we think that the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea, allowing for that free flow of trade through those waterways are very important for Australia. Obviously, there have been issues there. There are issues of human rights, where we have different positions, and we'll put those positions strongly, clearly and directly to China. And I think that's the way that you build a relationship though, is to have that, those straight talks and I believe Australia's in a position to do so.
SPEERS: What about China's role on the world stage? Xi Jinping's just hosted Vladimir Putin in Beijing. He's refusing to condemn Hamas. Are those things you'll raise?
PRIME MINISTER: Absolutely. We have a very different position when it comes to the actions of a terrorist group like Hamas, and we've seen the dreadful consequences. The consequences of the Russian invasion of Ukraine, continue to reverberate around supermarket shelves in Australia. So Australia needs to engage with the world, we need to have a seat at the table and my Government's determined to do so.
SPEERS: Now, I want to ask you about the state of democracy here in the United States. You've been watching it up close and involved in it this week, the House finally appointed a new Speaker, while you've been here. This is someone who did fight pretty hard to overturn Joe Biden's election win, he's known as a leading election denier, as they call it here in Washington. Does that concern you that there's a Speaker of the House who doesn't necessarily accept Joe Biden's election win and how fragile is democracy in the United States?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, it's important that democracy be not just supported, but be nourished, if I can put it that way, and Australia's position is very clear. The decisions for the United States Congress, of course, are a matter for them. It's a good thing that Speaker Johnson has been elected. I'll be meeting with him today and I very much look forward to that. I've met during this week with various Congress and Senate members, and all of them have been very supportive of AUKUS. At the event last night, there were a range of Congress and Senate leaders there. It was an opportunity to make sure that they understand how important the AUKUS relationship is for Australia.
SPEERS: But clearly, Joe Biden has concerns about Donald Trump, the things he's saying and the influence that he has on the Republican Party. You know, he's worried that the things that Trump says are a threat to democracy. Does that worry you about this, this powerful democracy actually being a threat?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, this is a great democracy and it's a great democracy that doesn't need the outside commentary about their internal affairs from the Australian Prime Minister.
SPEERS: Do you worry though, about what a Second Trump Presidency might have been the alliance, for the world?
PRIME MINISTER: I work with President Biden very closely. We have developed a great friendship, we now have met on nine occasions, having not just one dinner at the White House, but two the previous two evenings -
SPEERS: That relationship is clear, but he says world leaders are always raising with him concerns about Trump, are you?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, what I do in private meetings is, is keep those meetings private, you won't be reading my text messages with other world leaders.
SPEERS: What about AUKUS. Let me ask you whether there's been much progress this week in the various meetings that you've held. Are you any more confident that the legislation will be passed by Congress by the end of the year to allow AUKUS to proceed?
PRIME MINISTER: I'm very confident, and across the board, there has been extraordinary level of support. I think President Biden's initiative in sending a bill to Congress with more than $3 billion attached to it, to help with the industrial capacity to build the base here for submarines is very important as well and will alleviate some concern that was there from some US legislators that somehow the assistance to Australia would detract from the industrial base for the United States, I think that's been dealt with.
SPEERS: Are you willing to top up Australia's contribution which is $3 billion as well to the US submarine production base.
PRIME MINISTER: Our contribution is appropriate, and it's a good thing that the United States has contributed as well to alleviate any concern, which is there. Look, this is, this is of major benefit not just to the workers and the base there at Virginia and other places, but of course, particularly for South Australia and Western Australia. This will be a jobs bonanza, and it will do more than the direct jobs as well. Bit like the former auto industry did, you'll see that multiplier and there is, this is highly, highly advanced manufacturing for Australia will reap benefit for decades to come.
SPEERS: Final one Prime Minister, did you raise the case of Julian Assange with the President at all this week?
PRIME MINISTER: I raised the issue of Julian Assange with the administration on all of the occasions in which I've met members of the administration -
SPEERS: Including the President?
PRIME MINISTER: I raised it with the President on a range of occasions -
SPEERS: But what about this week though?
PRIME MINISTER: Yes I have -
SPEERS: And what did he say?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, we keep our discussions private. I make clear Australia's position that I made as Labor Leader, it's the same position I hold as Prime Minister, which is that enough is enough. It is time that this issue was brought to a conclusion.
SPEERS: It's time that Joe Biden stepped in and ordered the case be dropped.
PRIME MINISTER: No. Joe Biden doesn't interfere with the Department of Justice. Joe Biden is a President who understands the separation of the judicial system from the political system. That's an important principle. We've just had a discussion about democracy and the nature of it -
SPEERS: So is it time for a plea deal?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, we, the Australian officials are working very hard to achieve an outcome which is consistent with the position that I've put.
SPEERS: Prime Minister, thanks so much for joining us.
PRIME MINISTER: Thanks, David.