ANDREW CLENNELL, HOST: Well joining me live now from his office in Parliament House is the Prime Minister, Anthony Albanese. Prime Minister, thanks so much for your time. So, we heard today from Bill Shorten that he’s going to reform the NDIS. When we see the Budget in three weeks from today, will the estimated cost of that scheme have reduced or increased?
ANTHONY ALBANESE, PRIME MINISTER: What you'll see from Labor when it comes to the NDIS is that we want to make sure that participants are looked after. And that's what Bill's speech at the National Press Club was about today, making sure that if there is any unscrupulous providers seeing this, as he just declared there, as a cash cow rather than a scheme which is about helping vulnerable people to fully participate in our society, then the Government's prepared to take measures to ensure that every dollar is spent in the right way and that it's spent in order to improve people's lives. That's what the National Disability Insurance Scheme was about. And that's what Bill Shorten through reforms will be making sure it continues to be.
CLENNELL: I mean, we've had projections that will get out to $50 billion in 2026 and end up costing more than Medicare and aged care put together. Is that sustainable? Is there more you can do to bring that in than just targeting fraud? And will we see that in the Budget or not yet?
PRIME MINISTER: Well our focus is on the delivery of appropriate services, and that is our entire focus. Now clearly, part of that has to be making sure that every taxpayer dollar goes to making a positive difference in people's lives. That's what we'll be doing. We know that the NDIS is incredibly important for the individual, but it's also important for our society. And the NDIS shouldn't be seen as just a cost. What the NDIS does is enable people to fully participate in society, to make a contribution of the economy, to make a contribution to their family and their communities. So it's a very positive scheme. That is what it was designed to assist with, and that's what my Government's very focused on. And I can't think of anyone better than Bill Shorten to deliver reforms to make sure that it achieves its objective on an ongoing basis.
CLENNELL: Now Jim Chalmers flagged yesterday there would be a change to the commodity price assumptions in the Budget. I assume they'll be going up. Will they be going up by much?
PRIME MINISTER: Well you'll have to wait, of course. Not too long now, Andrew, it's only I think two weeks away. So you'll have to be patient. You've asked me three questions, and two of them have asked me for budget figures. So, the budget is on May 9 it will be handed down. It will be a budget that's focused on repair firstly, repairing a lot of the damage that was done over nine years of neglect of the former government. We have to as well stop funding for so many programs just going off a cliff. And so that has required some considerable investment, because the idea that we just stop important programs in community services, delivery, for example, on June 30 is simply untenable. So that'll be part of the job, but also providing assistance for people. You've already seen our energy price relief plan, you've seen cheaper medicines, you've seen cheaper child care comes in on July 1. But it also will be a budget of restraint as well. We recognise the inflationary pressures that are there globally and we want to make sure that we put that downward pressure on inflation.
CLENNELL: On spending restraint, I think the Treasurer was quoted in New York as saying it's more about that than any new taxes or increased taxes. Is that fair?
PRIME MINISTER: Well we're having, the Expenditure Review Committee’s continuing to meet today, in fact, yesterday, tomorrow, we're continuing to have these deliberations as you'd expect in the lead up to the Budget, putting the final touches on. But we are looking for areas in which we can show that restraint. We want to make sure that we, as well, build for the future. So, when we're focused on investment, it is in part looking at, okay, how do you deal with immediate challenges, but also build a stronger, more resilient economy in the future? So areas such as our investment in skills, our fee-free TAFE provides an immediate benefit in taking pressure off people's cost of living, but at the same time is addressing those skills shortages. Our National Reconstruction Fund is about making sure that we're creating jobs, particularly in manufacturing for the future. It's an investment in Australia's future economic growth. Our child care policy is about taking that immediate pressure off families, but it's also about women's workforce participation. It's about boosting productivity as well, so good for business. So our frame is very much dealing with the immediate challenges, but making sure at the same time we build for the future.
CLENNELL: You'd have to say that if the stage three tax cuts remain intact in this budget, you won't be fiddling with them in the next budget because it's pre-election. So, are they pretty much baked in? Are we seeing them in their current form?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, I've said every time I've been asked about this for some period of time that there's been no change in the Government's position.
CLENNELL: Okay, now you have electricity bill price relief going to pensioners and the unemployed and the like. The fact you've got that flowing, does that make you more reluctant to increase JobSeeker, or is JobSeeker and single parent payments, could we see possible increases there, given the cost of living crisis?
PRIME MINISTER: Well Andrew, of course, two weeks to go till Budget. I know that you are anticipating greatly the Treasurer's speech during Tuesday night, May 9, 7:30. Stay tuned there, that's when we make budget announcements. But a Labor government will always look for ways in which we can provide assistance to those in need. We'll do so, of course, though in a context. The context here is we don't want to add to any inflationary pressure and we inherited a trillion dollars of debt from the former government without any plan for future economic growth. And that's what investment in child care and addressing skill shortages, addressing the new economy through our National Reconstruction Fund is about as well. So you'll see a comprehensive plan from the Government, consistent with the commitments that we took to the federal election in 2022. We fulfilled so many of our commitments in the Budget that we handed down in October. But we'll be continuing to work there, and we'll also be considering the context we’re dealing with globally, those economic headwinds which are there. The pressure that’s there through measures as well, like the Inflation Reduction Act, meaning that there's pressure on where capital is invested here in Australia compared with the United States. That is placing pressure on future economic activity as well. So we're dealing with all of these challenges. The issue of dealing with climate change presents an enormous opportunity, but I'm very optimistic about Australia's future. My Government has plans for economic growth, job creation, new industries, making more things here in Australia. But we also have plans for social equity and for particularly dealing with gender equity as well. Sam Mostyn’s done some great work on women's economic equality and we'll be considering those issues as well. And of course our environmental program is one that has opened the door again to international engagement. So you'll see in the Budget as well that context, our need to be more engaged in Asia and the Pacific as well. You had a number of measures put in place in the last budget, but you'll continue to see that reflected and you’ve had in the last two days, you've had the Foreign Minister, Penny Wong, give a substantial speech at the National Press Club, and today Bill Shorten give another substantial speech. So, I'm very proud to lead a government that has ministers of substance who are out there setting a future positive agenda for Australia.
CLENNELL: And what's your reaction to Peter Dutton appointing Jacinta Price to the Indigenous Affairs portfolio today?
PRIME MINISTER: Well I welcome anyone being appointed, a number of people have been appointed to new positions today. I congratulate them. Jacinta Price hasn't been in the Parliament for long, it's a considerable promotion for her and I congratulate her. I congratulate James Paterson and the others who've been promoted. But I'll leave it for the Liberal Party and the National Party to be focused on themselves. What I'm focused on, and what my Government is focused on is the needs of the Australian community and the Australian economy and building for the future. It just seems that the Liberals and the Nationals with another resignation today, and I do want to wish Karen Andrews well for her future. Karen Andrews, of course, has said that she won't contest the next election and I wish her well.
CLENNELL: Peter Dutton seems to think, from my chat to him earlier that he can convince people the Voice is just too far reaching a constitutional change by the time of the referendum. And he's going to use Jacinta Price to assist him with that. What do you make of that?
PRIME MINISTER: Peter Dutton is against the Voice. He's against the Housing Australia Future Fund. He’s against manufacturing jobs through the National Reconstruction Fund. He's against the energy price relief plan for households, one and a half billion dollars, he voted against that.
He's against climate change action and climate change targets, even though the business community were unanimous in their support through the Business Council of Australia, the Australian Chamber of Commerce and Industry, the Australian Industry Group, together with the ACTU and the Australian Conservation Foundation. Not even that would convince him to say yes. So Peter Dutton can continue to wallow in his negativity. I think that Australians will judge him for that. What I'm about is having a positive agenda for the country.
CLENNELL: Do you expect to face him at the election?
PRIME MINISTER: That's a matter for the Liberal Party and the National Party. I think that what is very clear is that they are focused very much on themselves. That they haven't come to terms with the election loss last year and when they lost the by-election in Aston, the first time, as you know, for 100 years that the government have won a seat off the opposition in a by-election, his response was to call a party room meeting with two days’ notice, have a meeting that determined to vote no for the Voice, but said they'd have local and regional voices and a national Voice and then do a press conference and say they wouldn't have a national Voice. So I just think, at the moment, if you can't come to terms with where things are, where you are at any point in time, it's actually hard to go forward because you're not been acknowledging what the starting point is. But I'll just leave Peter Dutton and those matters are matters for the internals of the Liberal Party and the National Party. What I'm focused on is my united team that are focused on the needs of Australians.
CLENNELL: Can you just clarify for us once and all on the Solicitor-General's advice, and I know you're sick of answering questions about it, but sorry, I'll ask it anyway.
PRIME MINISTER: I could just refer you to previous answers.
CLENNELL: Did he have no problem with the executive government, though? Did he want Ministers of the Crown, or is that not true?
PRIME MINISTER: I’ve made it very clear. Well all of it's completely not true and conjecture that has been put forward. The Solicitor-General's views will be made clear through appropriate processes through the Attorney-General. And you have Peter Dutton out there. Look, the Coalition on these issues, last week, you actually had them saying that Anzac Day would be threatened, the holding of Anzac Day, if there is a constitutional recognition of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people through a Voice to Parliament. I mean, some of these scare campaigns are just getting, quite frankly, absurd. If you look at the legal opinions that have been published from people who are former High Court justices, including the Chief Justice, Justice French or Justice Hayne, or people such as Bret Walker or academics like Anne Twomey, their position is very clear that the proposed wording is legally sound.
CLENNELL: You've made something of the use of the term ‘may,’ that it ‘may’ provide advice. Was that something the Solicitor-General recommended?
PRIME MINISTER: Look, I'm not going through the Cabinet deliberations.
CLENNELL: Well that’s a shame.
PRIME MINISTER: But may is very clearly, there's no obligation. When you look at the words, it's ‘may make representations’, so they don't have to have made representations. And then the third clause is very clear about the primacy of the Parliament. And when it comes to ‘may’ make representations to Parliament, the Parliament and executive government. That wording has been around since 2014 in drafts produced by constitutional conservatives such as such as the former Shadow Attorney-General and Shadow Minister for Aboriginal Affairs. That's what the Member for Berowra put in words as far back as 2014, and he was appointed by Peter Dutton to hold those positions.
CLENNELL: Indeed. But I just, I'm a bit confused about, you've said last night and today again, the Attorney-General is going to release this advice from the Solicitor-General at the appropriate time. What's the appropriate time, is that to the parliamentary committee or in the Parliament when Parliament sits again. What's the appropriate time?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, it's a matter for the Attorney-General and the Solicitor-General, but we don't release Cabinet advice just as the former government didn't. So that is just the way that all governments have operated. I can't think of a time when Cabinet advice and Cabinet documents have been released. That's the way that the Westminster system has to operate. But there are other ways, of course, that the Solicitor-General can make their views known. And this is really just, I'll put this to you, Andrew. If any of the so-called issues that have been raised are dealt with, do you think that it then means Peter Dutton and the Coalition move on and go, ‘oh, well, that's okay then, we'll support the referendum’? Look, they've made it very clear, even before the parliamentary process that they said they wanted for months. And months ago I said what the timetable would be, that we'd introduce the legislation in March, that there'd be a joint parliamentary committee that would report in May, that it would go through the House of Representatives in May, then be considered in the Senate in June. Then there'll be a vote of the Australian people between October and December. They've known full well what the timetable is and yet they've already made a decision. There's been no participation in good faith. The National Party didn't even wait to find out what the question was before they decided they were against it. And that's the nature of the Noalition that we're dealing with.
CLENNELL: Okay, Prime Minister, we're nearly out of time, but I want to play this grab if you like of Peter Dutton talking to me earlier. Mr Dutton said to me this afternoon that he told you in a conversation last year that there were public servants who did not want to remove kids who were sexually abused in the Northern Territory. He admitted he didn't tell you about any particular case. I know there's been talk about this child who was sent back home or whatever. Have a listen to this.
PETER DUTTON (RECORDING): Our first obligation is to protect the innocence of that childhood, to protect the innocence of that child and make sure that they're in a safe environment, not putting them back into a harmful one. And so, systemically, that is a huge problem. And I raised that with the Prime Minister. You know, did I say to him, look, you know Billy Blogs was abused at 7:03pm last Wednesday night? No, that's not the circumstance.
CLENNELL: Okay, so he claims he raised with you that public servants weren't acting to remove abused children. Do you recall that conversation?
PRIME MINISTER: He just said himself, Andrew, he just said himself that he didn't raise any specific allegation with me. He just said that in that interview. I didn't see the interview live, but he just said it, which is very different from what he said in the Northern Territory. Very different, where he suggested that he had told something specifically to me. And let me tell you, if someone raised with me a specific case and I accept that Peter, like myself, like yourself, like overwhelmingly, people watching this program, if they knew about any specific child abuse, they'd find it abhorrent, and the appropriate response is to report it to the police.
CLENNELL: Okay, so you just see it as completely different to the previous claim. He did tell Parliament on October 27, around the time he met you, “Today authorities are not removing children from homes where they are being harmed and abused”. But you see that as different?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, that speaks for itself, don't you, Andrew?
CLENNELL: I think it is different to the claim, but I also think, I guess what he's saying is that he raised these issues of concern that authorities were turning a blind eye, suggesting a federal intervention, I guess. What was your reaction when he did that, do you recall?
PRIME MINISTER: Where's the specific allegation here, Andrew? I find child abuse abhorrent. I'm sure Peter Dutton does too. If there's any specific allegation, it should be reported to the police.
CLENNELL: Prime Minister, thanks so much for your time this afternoon.
PRIME MINISTER: Thanks very much, Andrew.