JULES SCHILLER, HOST: I'm joined now by the Prime Minister, Anthony Albanese. Welcome, Prime Minister.
ANTHONY ALBANESE, PRIME MINISTER: Good afternoon. Greetings from beautiful Port Lincoln.
SCHILLER: Yes, I know you've been in Broken Hill and Port Lincoln. Before we get onto the Voice, Prime Minister, could we just touch on what has happened in the Middle East? As I said, many distressing images and stories and statistics coming through. Penny Wong, and I think New Zealanders, have urged restraint in the, you know, when it comes to the Israeli response. Do you agree? And what would that restraint look like?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, no one wants to see innocent citizens hurt here, but Penny Wong simply made that point, as did Simon Birmingham, make a similar point. What we have seen, though, is a brutal activity. More than a thousand Hamas fighters cross into southern Israel and engage in indiscriminate killing and murder, and also capture a number of people, including women and children. And I think it is very distressing, the fact that people have been held, essentially as human hostages in Gaza, and it is important that they be released. I've made the point that Israel has a right to defend itself from this action and I think that anyone who looks at what's occurred here, will certainly agree with that position.
SCHILLER: How concerned are you about this conflict spreading? I mean, you've got Gaza in the south, Hezbollah in the north. There's concerns about Iran. I know the US are sending some warships into the region. Prime Minister, I mean, what's your level of alert?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, we are certainly concerned, and I'm receiving a briefing every day, every morning, about the circumstances that the region is facing. We know it's a very volatile region, which is why the activity over the weekend was so shocking. Because the escalation of violence that we saw was unprecedented and has caused a great deal of distress for people who've seen, is causing distress for people who have relatives in the region, as well. And I think that the activity of Hamas engaging in such indiscriminate killing, does nothing to advance the cause of the Palestinian people. I certainly want to see a solution to the Middle East with Palestinians and Israelis being able to live in peace and security. But this has done nothing except to disrupt, the possibility of that is made more difficult, when you have such abhorrent action by Hamas.
SCHILLER: On that, there's 123,000 Palestinians who have been displaced already, obviously fleeing for their safety, Prime Minister. And like you say, Hamas and the Palestinian people are different organisations, well organisations, there's a difference between the two. Would you consider any aid to that part of the world?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, we, of course, do provide aid through the UN Agency there. There is no doubt that there's been substantial Palestinian suffering, for a long period of time. But the actions of Hamas have to be condemned unequivocally because the consequences of just indiscriminate killing like has occurred, are dire indeed, and the ongoing capture of innocent citizens. What we had here, by and large, there were, of course, raids on 20 different cities and towns in southern Israel, including kibbutz. But the concert that was taking place, as a festival where young people go along to enjoy each other's company, it's peaceful activity. It's not something that should result in a circumstance, where you have gunmen coming in and shooting indiscriminately, trying to maximise the carnage which has been caused here. And that is why the world has reacted so strongly to this outrage.
SCHILLER: Prime Minister, let's move to the Voice and as I said on my intro, people are voting or most of us will vote on Saturday morning. So let's, with your help, let's get some indications on how the Voice will look if the Yes campaign wins. Just what people will be voting for. So, how many members do you envisage the Voice will have?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, people will vote for two things on Saturday. The first is, they vote for recognition in our nation's founding document, of the fact of our history, it didn't begin in 1788. And then, the form of recognition is the Voice. And the Voice has, there are three clauses there. One is, there shall be a body to be called the Aboriginal and Torres State Island Voice. The second is, what will it do? It may make representations to government and to the Parliament about matters that affect Indigenous Australians. And the third is, what form will the Voice take? And that, of course, is subject to the Parliament. So, the third clause is, the Parliament shall make laws about the composition, procedures, functions of the Voice. So, it's the primacy of the Parliament, will be important.
SCHILLER: Yeah, I know. There will be horse trading, obviously, you need to design the Voice with the Crossbench, the Greens and the Liberal Party. But in your ideal world, how many members will be part of the Voice? Because obviously, the more members, the more money, the more, you know, the more capacity for them to disagree. Do you see this as a 24 member body? 48? 100? Prime Minister, what would your ideal size be?
PRIME MINISTER: The Langton-Calma report that occurred under the former government, envisaged a Voice of about 24 members, made up of equal representation of men and women, made up of representation from every state and territory, as well as the Torres Strait. And it indicated that it would work with existing organisations. So, Land Councils and bodies which are there, the Coalition of Peaks and other organisations, it would work with. In South Australia, there is of course being established, the Voice to the South Australian Parliament, as well. So, it would work with existing organisations to make that representation to Parliament. But, of course, what I've said also is that if a Yes vote is carried on Saturday, I'll establish a Joint Parliamentary Committee. Jointly chaired by someone from the Labor Party and someone from the Coalition, to work on these issues. People like Julian Leeser, who was appointed by Peter Dutton to be the Shadow Attorney-General and the Shadow Minister for Indigenous Affairs, has worked on this issue since 2012. There are many people who've worked on this, of course, Ken Wyatt, the former Minister for Indigenous Affairs, under the Morrison government, as well.
SCHILLER: What's an example, Prime Minister, of an issue the Voice would bring to your government, that other bodies that you just mentioned, wouldn't bring?
PRIME MINISTER: Being able to replicate good practice. So, there are examples, for example, in community health, in justice reinvestment. In making decisions, so you get those local voices that would feed up through regional voices or through a national voice, so that you would not make decisions just based in Canberra, but you get decisions coming from the bottom up. So, I'll give you one example, practical example. During the pandemic, at the very beginning, there were catastrophic projections of the consequences for Aboriginal people that were going to occur. It was only when the bureaucrats went out and talked to people on the ground, that engaged and involved and gave that sense of ownership of people. In places like western New South Wales, that all of a sudden the vaccination rates went up, people engaged in a constructive way and you got better outcomes. Because if you give people that agency, that sense of ownership, you also give them responsibility for outcomes. And that's why, all of the most successful programs that have occurred, have been ones that have involved that agency of local people. And here in Port Lincoln, similarly, the local people who were just at an event where I was, local Indigenous people, very supportive of a Voice.
SCHILLER: Prime Minister, do you think that the Voice, primarily, its priorities will be Closing the Gap targets? Because there is a narrative that every issue that affects Indigenous Australians, also affects ordinary Australians. And so, will they comment on defence or will they comment on arts and things like that? Do you see this body as primarily concerned with Closing the Gap targets?
PRIME MINISTER: Of course it will be. And there's a lot of nonsense out there about things like the Reserve Bank getting advice about interest rates. It's just absurd. Indigenous Australians want to close the gap in health outcomes, in justice outcomes, in education and opportunities for their young people. Indigenous parents want for their kids exactly what other Australians want for their kids. They want better opportunities in life, higher living standards, better health care, better educational attainment. And that's what the Voice will concentrate on. At the moment, we're only meeting four out of the 19 Closing the Gap targets. We simply aren't shifting the dial. And if we keep doing the same thing in the same way, you should expect the same results. Which is why Indigenous Australians are asking for us to join with them and give them the opportunity to be listened to. It won't be a decision making body, decisions will still stick with the Parliament and with government.
SCHILLER: And as this campaign has played out, there's a lot, I mean, you yourself, Prime Minister, have had to comment on conspiracy involving the UN. We know there's Clive Palmer's entering, having a big campaign, advertising campaign about 'pay the rent'. There's been misinformation. Most Australians, I hope, make an informed decision on this, but you would know there's been lots of misinformation out there.
PRIME MINISTER: There certainly has.
SCHILLER: Do you think it's time to have a truth in political advertising clause?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, I wish it was the case that people in politics would engage in a truthful manner, but we now have, of course, Clive Palmer, as you say, joining with Peter Dutton. We've had questions from the Coalition in Parliament about the Reserve Bank and interest rates and army bases, that are just absurd. They know that that's not true, but they've been asked, in order to create political confusion out there -
SCHILLER: Did you expect this when you designed the campaign? I mean, surely you must have known that there would be aspects of social media that would put out anything from UFO conspiracies to UN conspiracies?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, there certainly have been a range of conspiracies out there. The disappointing thing is, it being joined by people who would regard themselves or you would think should be in the mainstream. The fact that Peter Dutton has chosen, after the Aston by-election, the path of being a wrecker. After he apologised for walking out on the Apology, it would appear that nothing has been learned. And just as with the Apology, we were told there'd be all these dire consequences, we know, in fact, that's not the case.
SCHILLER: So, you can say the Voice is not a pathway to treaty and reparation?
PRIME MINISTER: Of course, the Voice's question stands alone. And what people are voting for is just two things. Recognition and a non-binding Advisory Committee. That is all that they are voting for.
SCHILLER: And finally, Prime Minister, do you think the polls are wrong and the Yes campaign still has a chance on Saturday?
PRIME MINISTER: Of course, 25 per cent of people have not made up their mind yet. And people, when they look at what the question is, I think, there's nothing to be gained for a nation succumbing to a fear campaign. What helps a nation grow and expand and be better, is hope and optimism and a sense of seizing the moment and seizing the future. And I think also, people will ask themselves, after 122 years, if not now, when? When will we get around to completing our Constitution by acknowledging the fullness and richness of our history?
SCHILLER: And finally, quickly, Prime Minister, why are you in Port Lincoln today?
PRIME MINISTER: I'm here, I was invited by the Mayor.
SCHILLER: Okay.
PRIME MINISTER: And I've been meeting with the Mayor and business groups. I just attended a meeting there at the Marina, with about 80 to 100 people. It would appear that every business from the region was there, as well as councillors, and citizens of the year, and a whole bunch of people, just an opportunity to talk through issues. A number of people I talked to about the Voice. But talking about the opportunity that's there to expand exports from this wonderful region, about tourism, about agriculture, of course, seafood trade issues, of course with China, was raised as well, with issues like the rock lobster industry. But it was a real chance. I want to make sure that I'm the Prime Minister for the whole country, not just the cities. And that's why I was in Whyalla just a few weeks ago and why earlier this year, of course, I also visited Renmark.
SCHILLER: Well, Prime Minister, thanks for your company today. We'll find out what happens on Saturday.
PRIME MINISTER: Thanks very much.